I’m amazed but not surprised to see you talking about Grillos pickles! I met Travis Grillo back in 2008 when he first started selling pickle spears (two spears for $1) in downtown Boston. Working first from his car, and then setting up a pickle cart, he used his family’s recipe that was simply amazing. I worked for a company that did printing and we printed some of his earliest labels. Great Guy. I cheered every time his pickles were picked up by a new grocery store chain and I was surprised the first time I found his west of the Mississippi. He’s worked long and hard and it is nice to see his achieve the rewards and recognition he’s earned!!
—
Keith Spiro

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Howdy, Bob!

Grillos Pickles are the best I’ve been able to buy in a regular store.

They’ve had them here at the Publix in Nashville for a good while and I’ve been lucky to be able to have them for the last few years.

Their “Italian version” are even worth eating (!)

Admittedly, the stock level is sporadic, and they are in chip form for the most part, but every once in a while, I can get the spears (I grew up in Chicago, so a pickle spear with a sandwich, pretty much any sandwich, felt like law, and I obeyed!), which really makes me happy.

Anyway, I’ve been a “Grillos evangelist” for a good long while and consider their offerings top-flight; I’m glad you’ve found them and get to enjoy them as well!

Cheers!

King Williams

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Grillos has a marketing arrangement with the Boston Bruins. They’ll display their fun logo on the boards and on the ice in the neutral zone.  They also sponsor a segment of the Bruins pre-game show, called “Cool as a Cucumber”.  Griilos also sells a hockey jersey…

Grillo's Hockey Jersey

Delicious pickles…the best.  And easy to come by here in the Boston area.  Most grocery stories sell them.

Jeff Hansen

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Happy you discovered them! They really are the best! Found them a few years ago at BeachLife Festival in Redondo where they had an activation complete with a dude in a pickle mascot outfit waving people over. Figured it was a little cheesy, but it worked! My wife insisted on going over and taking a picture with him and I tasted the pickles and was blown away by the flavor! Costco out in Westlake seems to always have them, by the way.

Danny Cooper

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My fave pickles are from Katz’ in NYC. I have yet to find anything similar in Toronto 🙁

Karen Bliss

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Good choice Bob. Been buying Grillo’s Pickles by the bucketful @ Costco for quite some time. Actually was running low on my last bucket, and have a new one ready to open in the fridge when those are done. Best store bought pickles I’ve ever had. Even the Goyim are hip to Grillo’s.

-Rick Marino

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I’m a sucker for packaging. They have great merch. I got turned on to them here in Chicago while watching a baseball game on TV. They had the advertising behind home plate. A pickle in a lawn chair wearing flip flops, I had to try them. They are now they are my go-to store bought pickle. Kudos to whoever handles the marketing aesthetic.

Jason Cienkus
Chicago Suburbs

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I love Grillo’s! My whole extended family was raised devouring mass quantities of pickles. My current favorite though is a Philly local, Dietz & Watson. Amazing stuff

Gary Ferenchak

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Those pickles are the best!! We’ve been buying them for a few years now.  It’s one of the few teams I don’t get annoyed at regarding price at the grocery store. The first time my wife bought them and I saw they were like $9 for the small container I got so mad but then I tried them and was hooked. They’re usually stocked in the local Stop ‘n Shop here on Long Island but it’s weird – there are times when you just can’t find them for a few weeks and we have to settle for the jarred crap haha. Great find!

Rob DiFondi

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I love when you write this kinda sh*t. Amazing how many words you wrote about grillos. That being said they are incredible. You can a big pail at Costco. We get em all the time.

Stevie Rees / Arbo

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Bob –

Grillo’s also makes a great pickle based “Salsa”.  It’s a great condiment to keep on hand!

-Steve Duchardt

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Truly the best commercially available dill pickle spear available to purchase today.

Will never match the long gone and lamented Clairmont Diner (Verona,NJ) complimentary assorted pickle bowl ( with pickled tomatoes) sitting on every table as you sat down or the one of kind Clairmont Salad (Kind of vinegar based Cole Slaw with a hint of sweetness) that all whoever tasted still pines for.  Ask Jon Scher.

Bert Holman

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I can’t believe you love these too. We’re obsessed with Grillos pickles. Respect.

Mindi Abair

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And if you’re lucky they occasionally have the Grillo’s Half Sours…so damn good!

Aloha
Steve London

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They are unmatched. 100!

Pink Needs

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My wife is addicted to them. There is never a time when they are not in our fridge. I dig em but she’s on another planet.

Dan Millen

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Hey Bob,

One LA pickle lover to another…you gotta try The Crazy Cucumber. Artisan pickle monger often shows up at the Malibu Farmer’s Market, Sundays 10am-3pm I believe. Also at others. Great quality, tons of interesting varieties…and sauerkraut that’s fantastic. Cool guy who loves talking about his products. Worth the journey up PCH.

Best,

Larry Laffer

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Half Sour? Can’t find them in Cadillac, MI to save my life!!

Paul Bizzigotti

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Okay, I’ll reluctantly try Grillo’s. A friend mentioned they’re great too. But I’m camp Bubbies which is essentially the pickle I grew up eating in Canada formerly known as Strub’s pickles.

Best,
Ellie Shapiro

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bob you gotta check out grillo’s instagram. they have some of the best marketing going right now.

also their pickle salsa is awesome

Tom Gilbert

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You have to try the grillo pickle de gallo. Put it on a bratwurst or anything else for that matter.

Ryan Nagle
CAA | Touring

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Keep an eye out for their ‘Pickle de Gallo’

It’s special

-jl

Best regards,

Jonathan Lerner

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Grillo’s Pickles are awesome, and readily available here on the East Coast. I really like all the dill, or whatever that vegetation is that comes with them. But the containers need serious improvement; they’re guaranteed to spill pickle juice all over the place and need to be opened in the sink.

Rich Madow

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I am a huge pickle fan and have two buckets of Grillo pickles in my refrigerator in Kerrville, Texas. The best…

Steven McClintock
37 Records

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Back in the late 70’s, my folks bought a bungalow colony in White Lake, NY, about two miles down the road from what was still Yasgur’s farm.  It was the waning days of the Borscht Belt Catskills and gambling was rumored to be imminent, after Atlantic City had approved it recently. They got a great deal on the place, 90 acres, 60 cottages rented by NYC Jewish families for the summer. They thought it would be fun, and they’d flip it within five years. Of course gambling didn’t happen for another 30 years.

I met a girl from Brooklyn there. Her parents were teachers, and in the summer they were hustlers. All sorts of side businesses, primarily running flea market booths at the Kiamesha Lanes bowling alley parking lot on Sundays. They had a pickles and dried fruits and nuts stand, and I manned the both with my girlfriend in the summer of ’80. We had barrels of pickles made by Shimmy the Pickle King. Grillo is probably a more palatable pickle-maker for the gentiles than Shimmy, but they were great pickles.

I still prefer them as sour and garlicky as possible, not a fan of dills and half-sours.

Every whole pickle I’ll ever bite into will bring me back to the 18-year-old kid spending his last summer before college slinging pickles to the summering Jews of Sullivan County.

Dave Arbiter
Margaritaville
Daytona Beach, FL

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If you are also a fan of half sours, do yourself a favor and try Ba-Tampte…look for a glass jar found in the refrigerated section.  (How these weren’t included in the Wirecutter review is beyond me!)

I first encountered these in college at Drexel in Philly, while working as a waiter at Ted’s Montana Grill.  We would drop them on the table while customers looked over the menu…the restaurant may have lost money on the days I worked a double!

In PA, I’m usually able to find them with relative ease at our local Wegmans or Acme.  However, periodically they are out of stock for whatever reason, which can really throw a wrench in your lunch sandwich plans!

These are hands down my favorite pickles, you just have to make sure they are bright green in the jar, occasionally they will look a darker green and/or yellow, with cloudier brine, which means they won’t taste right and are on the mushier side, sometimes due to the lid losing its seal.

Enjoy!

Jon-Michael Marino

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Glad you found the pickles Bob. I live in SW France now and you can’t find dill pickles anywhere here only cornichons which the French eat with pate, etc. They are more like bread and butter pickles than dill. When I lived in Ireland I could get very good dills at the Polish stores which were everywhere because of the large population of Polish immigrants. Your email brought back a few memories also. I used to live in Grand Junction in western Colorado and shopped at City Market!! Hadn’t thought about them for a long time. Also, took a look at the Wirecutter link and the dill pickles that I bought in the states were also recommended…. Bubbies. I loved those and might be worth trying if you can’t find Grillos. Enjoy your posts and a lot of times makes me glad to be living outside the US! All the best Bob

Tom Ryall

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Hey Bob. Pickles are definitely having a moment right now. The kids would say we are Picklemaxxing. But I’m a big fan of Grillo‘s, as well. You should try to get your hands on some Grillo‘s Pickled Grapes. I know it sounds weird – but they are absolutely delicious— the perfect combo of sweet and sour. Meanwhile – I happen to think the best pickles in Los Angeles are from Kaylin & Kaylin at the Original Farmers Market at 3rd & Fairfax.

Trey Callaway

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Less than two weeks ago my wife was in Whole Foods looking for my regular brand of dills.  They were out so she picked up a jar of Grillo’s, which she had read about in one of her many cooking magazines.    WOW!  I’m never going back to Vlasek. Fermented foods are among the most ancient, so somebody knows something.  Thanks!

dennis brent

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Have you tried Batempte Half Sours in Refrigerator section of Gelsons?
They’re my favorite.
Unfortunately, nothing resembling 5 cent ones from the barrel of Sol’s Deli on 20th street and 1st Avenue…

Bob Goodman

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I live in Iowa and get Grillos at Hy-Vee.  They are grossly under appreciated here.  Seeing Grillos and Paquito Mas referenced in the same email is the ultimate PSA!  Thank you for your service!!!

David Bernstein

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Bob- I love you so I take great regret in bursting your bubble. Grillo’s pickles aren’t fermented. It says so on their own website under the FAQ:

Do Grillo’s pickles need to be refrigerated?

Since Grillo’s products are a completely fresh pickle made without chemicals or preservatives, they are not fermented. This means they need to be kept at refrigerated temperatures to ensure both quality and freshness are maintained.

You found the clue about needing refrigeration, you just didn’t put it together. There are 2 ways to make pickles, one using vinegar (which is what Grillo’s does) and one using fermentation with a brand like Bubbies. (Not recommending them, they were just Wirecutter’s pick further down the page for a “Tart & Juicy” option)

You can tell if a pickle is fermented because it will be a cloudy jar and it won’t have vinegar in its ingredients. I learned all this from a trip to the Pickle Guys on Grand Street on the Lower East Side, which you should definitely visit the next time you are in New York because they have dozens of jars of fermenting foods.

I don’t have an affiliation with any of the above brands, but I do have access to grocery sales data as a food exec and can tell you the yogurt category has been absolutely exploding (up 18% Year over Year, which is insane growth for a mature category) because of consumer interest in high probiotics (fermentation’s main benefit) coupled with protein. Real yogurt like Nancy’s or Stonyfield (skip Dannon & Yoplait) have decent probiotic counts in the low billions. If you want high probiotics in the tens of billions (the main reward of fermented foods) go for Kefir. (which is drinkable) For a new breed of super-high probiotic spoonable options in the hundreds of billions like Coconut Cult or Kefirkult, head to Whole Foods. (Both use coconut milk, which is high in saturated fat, so it’s not for everyone)

Skip the sugary flavors if you can, go for the original varieties and add your own fruit.

Best of luck!

Greg Lorenzo

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I’m taking a $10 risk on your taste (amazon fresh delivery). It’s impossible to find good pickles in the OC. We are losing another Gelson’s and they were the only ones left selling B’Tempte. (sp?). Luckily, father’s day means a trip to LA and Brents. Their new pickles are to die for but the half sour haven’t been the same since the pandemic. If you’re right, I owe you.

Bruce Greenberg

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So Grillos ran a hugely successful marketing campaign last year on Instagram and it blew up. Almost all zoomers love Grillos.

Now they have a whole new line of Grillos beets and onions and carrots and grapes.

It literally became the brand seemingly overnight with youth.

Johnny Lloyd Rollins

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Hi Bob — I have a tip.

I order full sour pickles from Katz’s in New York.  If the order is more than $100 shipping is free (it was last time I ordered).

The full sour are the best.  Puts all others to shame.

Jim Charne

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I love Grillo’s.  They are the best. (And I get mine at Ralph’s; they always have them). But…

…. they’re not fermented.

Matthew Mars

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Grillo’s are not fermented so you are not maximizing the nutritional value. Bubbie’s are fermented and widely available in different varieties.

Geoffrey Cushing-Murray

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Grillo’s is delicious, but they are not technically fermented. They are just ‘pickled’.

Fermented pickles have active cultures… like the brand Bubbies – or more famously The Pickle Guys (the successor of “Guss’ Pickles” from Crossing Delancey) on Essex & Grand in NYC. They sell a handful of fermented pickles (and some are simply pickled), but all are delicious.

Michael Closter

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I’m generally a Bubbie’s guy, both the whole dill pickles and their sweet & sour chips.  I will check out Grillo’s.  When I was a kid, there was nothing better than a pickle barrel in the store where you fished out your own pickle – Zabar’s of course, but also there was a shop in Rockport on one main drag.  Paired with a tuna sandwich on rye, nothing better.

Toby Mamis

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Grillo’s is good! Bubbies is the best!!

Burt Stein

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Bubbie’s kosher dills or Bubbie’s spicy kosher dills. The only choice!!!

Rhonda Bedikan

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This is my area of expertise, including going to Gus’s back in the day (the inspiration for Crossing Del).

 

This is the closest you can get from a store (online too).

 

IPO and Peace are the best.

 

https://brittsfermentedfoods.com/collections/all

Dave Pell

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I LOVE your quest for the perfect pickle. I have been there and done that. I would go to Disneyland, which is not my favorite place in the whole wide world, just to go to Main Street to buy a couple of pickles from the huge jar. If people are going to Disneyland, they ask if I want a pair of Mickey’s ears. Hell no.

Could you please pick up several pickles on Main Street? Here’s my dealbreaker. They have to be old/classic pickles, NOT the raw cucumber style. Who was the Impatient person that couldn’t wait? You have to learn to pace your pickles. I keep the empty jars with the brine. If you get into a pickle and run out, you should always buy some picking cucumbers, cut them into spears, and make your own. PLUS pickle juice takes the pain away from a sore throat. It’s a staple in my refrigerator. I can only imagine your panic when you ran out. Are they classic/old/patient/ or new cucumbers?

Now I crave deli food, but it’s too late in the evening. I’ll go make some Matzo Brei. My go-to when I am too tired to cook! Tossed or pancake style? Eaten with sugar or salt?

Maldon Flakes for me. Perhaps with a side of pickle.

Jill Harris

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Ralph’s impulse purchase day before yesterday…perfect on a Hebrew National;  and then I read WSJ fermented article!

We on the same page Bob.

Tony Yoken
Los Angeles/Memphis

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ok just went to amazon and saw ’em…
one jar is in my cart!

Hong Son

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Drink the brine. Trust me. I’m Polish.

Better hydration than Gatorade as it has the salt you actually need.

Grillo’s half sour are my go to as a thoroughbred Pole. Whole Foods always has them.

Pickles for the win,

Lee Guzofski

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1,436 words about pickles and I read ever single one. And my mouth is also watering. Grillo’s pickles are amazing.

I love this. Thanks for sharing.

I don’t think I’ve ever actually shot off a reply to you, but I’ve started writing many. I get a few paragraphs in, feel better about whatever riled me up, and said “eh, nobody gives a sh*t about what I think. Delete.” But here I am actually hitting send about pickles. Thanks for your newsletter. You’re a bright light.

Stephanie O’Donnell
Former country record rep, now a realtor. Ha.

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Hey Bob.

Got a kick out of your Pickle Piece.

I know that you’re a Wirecutter fan (as am I), so you may have seen this article.

Our next door neighbor is a NYT food writer and she wrote this piece on Sardines.

I used to eat a lot of Sardines with my Dad and brother back in the 60s!  We’d eat ‘em with saltine crackers and mustard while watching football games.  An acquired taste, no doubt!

Anyway, I mentioned this to Kathy (that’s her byline below) after I’d read her article.  So she left a tin of one of the top ranking Sardines at our door.

It was the brand called Donostina.  Lord have mercy.  These things were amazing!!!  Only 4 in the can…like fillets.

I haven’t seen them around here in NYC, but if I do, I’ll snag more for sure.

For some reason, you strike me as somebody who might like Sardines.  If so, keep your eyes peeled when you’re cruising the high end stores out there (cruising high end grocery stores, btw, is something I LOVE to do).

Killer!

Hugh Surratt

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-sardines/

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From: Tom Russo

Hey Bob. Grillo’s was just featured in the Costco Connection this month.:

SUPPLIER SPOTLIGHT

Fresh favorite

How Grillo’s Pickles grew from a Boston food cart to a briny behemoth 

by GEOFF NUDELMAN

Grillo’s Pickles CEO and Costco member Adam Kaufman is quick to point out that the pickle brand doesn’t take itself too seriously, even as it has experienced serious growth over the last decade. 

“We had a groundswell of support from when we started with a cart in Boston Common,” says Kaufman, who has been with the company since 2018. “The aspirational side of our brand is neat. We’re a different pickle.”

The Grillo’s products available today are made with the same recipe co-founder Travis Grillo adapted from his grandfather’s pickles and began selling out of his car in 2008. The pickles were a hit and he moved to a wooden pickle cart in 2009. 

The brand had customers buzzing. “There was pickle merch for sale, friends skateboarding around and the occasional pickle suit appearance while hustling pickles on the street,” says Grillo’s co-founder and vice president of brand Eddie Andre. “(This all) created an energetic brand that was more than just a pickle out of a cart.” 

Later, two employees of a large national grocer came down to the cart and tried the pickles for themselves, which led to a larger audience. “After a few years of dedicated hustle, we were accepted in several of the store’s regions, and nationally by 2016,” says Andre. 

According to Andre, part of that growth has come from how Grillo’s has maintained its roots in punk rock and skate culture, even as it arrived as a national brand.

The company does a pop-up each year in New York City where it sells limited-edition items, such as pickled grapes, and maintains an irreverent and quirky social media presence that’s as much a pickle 

fan account as it is brand promotion.

“I feel lucky to be around the brand,” Kaufman says. “Over the last three years, the whole pickle market has just exploded.” 

Home

All it took was a push from my nutritionist. (Of course I have a nutritionist, I live in California! No, seriously, I go to the nutritionist because I have insanely high cholesterol when untreated. But now with a combination of Crestor and Zetia Boston Heart tells me my numbers are very low, in the green, if you know Boston Heart…) Susan said, almost as an aside, to eat some fermented foods, she recommended pickles and sauerkraut…

And that was all I needed to hear. There are no illegal foods in Susan’s world, but really, you should shy away from carbs and since I’m insulin resistant… (I know that’s popular jargon, but if you feel a bit sleepy and out of it after eating pasta, you might be insulin resistant too…like cholesterol, it’s got a genetic component.) So when Susan recommends a food I actually like…

Not that I’d been eating pickles on a regular basis. Maybe when I went to the deli. But I’ve been trying to avoid that, since it comes with pastrami and other foods that should not be eaten on a regular basis.

Now growing up, I ate a ton of pickles. There were two giant jars in the garage. Homemade things, the kind of stuff kids today would never touch. But growing up in the dark ages… One jar had green tomato pickles, the other sour dills.

You rarely see green tomato pickles anymore, because of their bite. You chomp down on them like an apple, and you get the crunch of the veins and the oozing of the fluid and a sour sensation all at the same time. Let’s just say they wake you up.

And back in the fifties, even the sixties, most people were eating bland food. But not Jews! My father was an epicurean. A veritable gourmet. He’d take us for Italian ice on Sundays and late at night he’d stop at Zwerdling’s bakery to buy rolls hot off the press… There’s nothing like truly fresh bread.

And my dad bought the above pickles, along with lox and whitefish and sable and bagels, at Max’s delicatessen. (One of their specialties was chive cheese, unlike the kind you see today, as in there were almost as many chives as cheese!)

Now somewhere in the sixties Max handed the reins to Sam, and it was now called Sam’s, but Sam had worked there all the while and the store was still the same. You don’t get the same experience today, it’s kind of like the long lamented hardware store where the proprietor knew your name… My father was beyond a regular, he’d run around the store sampling things…

So I was taught the only good pickles, the only ones worth eating, were the outliers that were handmade and proffered at places like Max’s/Sam’s. Especially back then, pickles were bland.

Now pickles did have a moment back in the eighties, with the movie “Crossing Delancey,” when that was Peter Riegert’s business and the issue was whether it was too déclassé a job for Amy Irving…and whatever happened to her? But they’ve never been hip. But the ones you get in the store are much better.

So after that session with the nutritionist I was combing the aisles at Costco, something I love to do, kind of like exploring the offerings on the Netflix homepage, and in the refrigerated section I found this big plastic bucket of pickles.

I debated whether to buy it. The problem with Costco is the deals are so good that you’re overcome with temptation and find yourself at home with more than you could ever consume, unless you have a family, and I do not.

But pickles? Don’t they last a long time? 

So I put the bucket in my cart.

Now opening this bucket of pickles was not simple. It looks like you have to rip off a plastic band, but really you only have to break this one tab to open the bucket up.

But then…

You’re confronted with the fact that the bucket is packed full. It’s impossible to open it without getting pickle juice over everything. Which is an incentive to eat a bunch of pickles, because then the volume goes down and the pickle juice level descends…

And I was stunned how good these pickles were. Not exactly like the ones at Max’s/Sam’s, but these were store bought, made for mass consumption.

Those pickles were Grillo’s.

Not that I thought much of it. I mean you can buy great stuff at Costco, but I wouldn’t think it would purvey the paragon of pickles. The absolute zenith.

But I did expect such at Gelson’s, the local high end market. Which offered Mt. Olive.

Nowhere close.

So I went back to Costco… And they haven’t had them since!

But a couple of months back, driving my cart down the aisle at City Market in Vail, I saw them. Of course in a smaller container, but they were Grillo’s.

I didn’t buy them that day, I’m trying to remember why, maybe I was in somewhat of a rush, but the next time I went back to City Market…

I couldn’t find them.

And the problem is I only like to do things when everybody else does not. Meaning I’ll go for my tostada at Poquito Mas at three in the afternoon, when I can get a parking spot and sit in the booth without feeling guilty about taking up space.

And I shop late in the evening, as Paul Simon would do. Midnight is a good time for me, however City Market in Vail is only open until ten.

Now the problem with City Market in Vail is after about six, the meat slicer at the deli counter disappears. And they have Boar’s Head meats, which are the best of the over the counter, no Oscar Mayer for me, so I try to shop a bit earlier, but I got engaged in a long conversation with Charley, who was lending me his car for this grocery sojourn, and I missed the window.

And, since it was later in the day, very few people were working there. Would there really be someone who knew where the Grillo’s pickles were?

Now I must admit I spent way too much time looking before I asked. My father constantly implored us to ask, he was uninhibited, maybe that’s why I’m shy, but finally I found someone who looked like he knew what was going on and he led me to the Grillo’s pickles.

And that’s when it all became clear, unlike seemingly every other pickle brand they’re refrigerated! Why, I can’t tell you, since pickles are often brined in open-air casks, even by the railroad tracks.

And when I got back to the condo, VOILA!

But back in L.A., I’ve run out of luck, I can’t find Grillo’s pickles seemingly anywhere.

And then the other day on a quick run to Whole Foods, waiting for my sliced roast beef (it’s the best there, it’s salt-cured), I was looking over my shoulder and I saw them, Grillo’s pickles!

Now ultimately I realized there was a tiny little red dot on the bucket, saying they were “Hot,” but I can handle it. Actually, I ate a bunch before I even noticed the labeling.

And then, just the other day, I saw a link for the Wirecuttter, hyping the fact that they rated store bought pickles.

So I clicked on over, looking for what was the best, I’m all about the best when it comes to food and other low-priced items, and I’d be lying if I didn’t tell you I was rooting for Grillo’s, but what were the odds?

And then…

GRILLO’S WAS NUMBER ONE!

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-pickles/

So what I’m doing here is hipping you to Grillo’s. If you ever get a hankering for a pickle, if you like something with a bit of bite, that is not bland, they fit the bill perfectly.

This has been a public service announcement.

P.S. Only when I began writing this did my brain connect pickles to a story I read in yesterday’s “Wall Street Journal,” about the people in Trump’s cabinet on fermented food diets. I guess my nutritionist was ahead of the game.

“Everyone in Trump’s Cabinet Is Eating Sauerkraut – JD Vance, RFK Jr. and other officials swear by a diet of grass-fed meat and fermented foods, even when the sulfurous odors cause friction at home”

https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/fitness/trump-vance-lutnick-rfk-sauerkraut-diet-2f33bdf1

https://apple.news/A85-8CdS6Sm6MJ8jPvbyt0A

I’m not a Marshall McLuhan maven, but one thing is for sure, the internet has changed the message, and too many refuse to accept this.

It crosses all art forms, from books to movies, but here I’m going to focus on music.

It starts off with short. No one is going to dedicate a lot of time to that which they don’t already like. So, your first entry must be short.

This is the essence of TikTok/Instagram Reels, where everything breaks today. You can deny this, but it is only to your detriment.

How do you grab people quickly?

There are many ways, but one thing is for sure, the traditional path just doesn’t work.

People don’t want to see a fifteen or thirty second clip of a new recording over images… No, because the means of production are in the hands of the proletariat, i.e. everybody has a recording device in their pocket and access to the internet and free distribution, it’s become about humanity. So, whatever your clip is, it must focus on humanity. You can use razzle-dazzle images, but even if they gain traction, they’re one and done. The focus must be on those in the video, and in music, that must be the people making it.

Now back when production and distribution was expensive and most people could not play, the key was to deliver perfection, in drips and drabs. Remember when a live album used to be a big thing, put out after four or five studio LPs? The internet has eviscerated that paradigm. Today, live is free on YouTube. But, since there’s so much product in the marketplace, perfection is no longer key, never mind that most people are listening on substandard systems. Yes, in a digital world of zeros and ones, you need to deliver what computers cannot, i.e. humanity. It’s a fool’s errand to comp vocals, do it over and over again to get it exactly right. That’s what Suno does, you’re human, you make mistakes, you need to leave them in.

And you must display your emotions, you must laugh and cry, be serious and…

So, if  you want to break a new artist, you must do it on these platforms.

Ups are cheap and outs are not counted. That means you should do it until you get it right, i.e. people respond. Songwriting camps? How passé! These should be multimedia camps creating short clips. Not for others, but for those who write the tunes. It should be closer to an OnlyFans house than it is to the songwriting camps of today. You all get together and create…BUT THAT’S THE END PRODUCT! It’s not about writing something for someone else to sing, but you. And you need to post right after you’ve written it, when you’re still in the same emotional space. It can be just you and your guitar if you can convey the gravitas and the meaning, if it’s an emotional effort, not  studied one. However, you and your compatriots at the camp/in the house should be making innovative clips, that’s part of the songwriting process today. It’s all baked at once. Fast. And if it doesn’t work, you go back to the drawing board.

And when you create this way, genres are irrelevant. The major labels are looking for easy lifts, something like the last thing that they can promote in the press and to radio. No, you start with online and stay online. Your hope is it crosses over to traditional DSPs, period. But you have to build it, the thought of breaking through a DSP playlist is laughable. You’re one of a zillion songs, that people may never hear again, never mind they’re not paying attention to begin with. But on TikTok…people  are focused. You’re either on or you’re off, you’re not distracted. So the audience is giving its full attention, and if people see something they like, they want more of it. Period.

As for longer efforts…

Once you gain an audience, once people are hooked, then you can experiment with longer form content. Before that, thirty seconds is enough. That’s right, we’re looking for HOOKS! Certainly less than a minute. If you can’t get your message across in that period of time you’re not really an artist.

You must get your head out of the old game.

Both the labels and the creators. Stop talking about making albums, which only came about because of the invention of the 33 1/3 vinyl record. You’re doing it all wrong.

Number one is your relationship with your audience. If you truly hook people, they’ll follow you anywhere. And the rule of TikTok is you’ve got to produce, produce, produce. The truth is if someone likes what you’re doing, they want more of it. You’re now a friend of theirs, on the verge of being a best friend. You connect with your best friend every day, that’s what people are expecting of the posters on TikTok.

It’s audience first!

Don’t think about music first. Don’t think about the chart first. Think about what it’s going to take to get people to pay attention and to continue to want to pay attention. This does not necessarily mean lowest common denominator, it means INTERESTING! Sometimes catchy. Always innovative. We’re looking for progenitors online, not imitators.

Now young people already know everything I’ve stated above. They don’t read newspapers. They want that direct hit that only comes from the phone. And the oldsters are so pissed about this that they rail about social media and want to take youngsters’ phones away. But that’s like trying to kill the Beatles. The audience is hooked, they want more. And what is delivered on TikTok is exactly what oldsters do not purvey. It’s a feeling more than an image, it’s not mere content, it’s about the effect. You know, the way you felt hearing a song only once and needing to go to the record store to buy it.

You can argue with me all you want, but the ship has already sailed, this is where we are.

Everybody’s cottage industry and the major labels have no power the individual does not. And the more layers you put between creator and audience the more you squeeze out the juice. People need to feel that direct connection, that’s what being sold in this digital world. Which is why experiences are king. Think about delivering an EXPERIENCE! That’s what your music should be.

P.S. I’ll say it again, if you’re not spending a lot of time on TikTok… I hope you’re not in the music business. TikTok is like Napster, only in this case, the disruption is in content as well as distribution. And until you understand the new platform, you can’t operate. This is why the major labels are wasting so much money trying to break new artists, they’re just doubling-down on an old paradigm that is nearly dead. Spending a lot on a few, polishing and promoting. No, today the marketplace is broad, and you don’t have to spend a lot to make it. It’s about making as opposed to promotion. Everything is your art. You’re performing online every time you post. Forget gatekeepers, those who promise exposure. Sure, a sync in a major production may yield dividends, yet the odds are very low. But the majors keep shooting arrows, hoping to hit the target. The world of creativity has already been disrupted. But all we get from Spielberg and the oldsters is movies are inviolate and must be seen in a theatre. How out of touch can you be? As for short attention spans… People have unlimited time for that which they love, but if they don’t love it, they just scroll on.

I felt guilty for not liking this show.

I tried 3 viewings and it just seemed dumb.

Thanks for the review !

John Gentry

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You lost me at fakokta. Best show on TV.

Tom Lehr

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Totally agree, Bob. Refreshing to hear a like-minded take. Everyone I’ve talked to LOVES this thing. I don’t get it. It’s a thoroughly decent show. The cast is good and the humor is pretty fun, but comes at the expense of the horror element. You can’t have it both ways. And the 300 year flashback was a huge miss. Lost all momentum and the humor didn’t translate either.

Trevor Dauten

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I thought it was hysterical and creepy and specific and atmospheric. And smart!

Not for everyone though, I’ll allow.

Jacob Moon

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LOVED IT, thought it was fantastically funny and dark humour horror. I slogged through the series week by week and agree, the mushroom episode was particularly hysterical. I am a fan of quirky shows and this one hit the spot with clever writing and interesting characters. Way to go Apple.

Margaret Hamamoto

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I understand what you’re saying. Those two episodes were hilarious and there were some other fine and funny moments, performances, not to mention plot holes. The acting and humor is what puts this show on the map.  Watching Matthew Rhys’s face when the founder was eating the Vienna sausages was mint. Stephen Root was great throughout. My wife said the show reminded her of Lost and I can see that and hope it doesn’t go too far down that road. At least it’s very funny. It’s pretty good escapism.

Harold Love

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I thought it was entertaining, nothing more. Gave me a bit of a JAWS vibe with the mayor insisting everything is fine, we can’t cancel summer and so on. Matt Rhys was phenomenal in the Beast In Me, which is why I wanted to see Widow’s Bay.

Derek Beere

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I couldn’t keep up with the villains: a sea hag, the guy they exhumed (couldn’t tell if he was a villain), the Halloween Michael Myers guy, the weather, the crawling creature from the night in the hotel and whatever was in the basement in the finale.

The scene where the old woman sketches out the family lineage on an overhead projector that went on and on and on was perhaps the most annoying scene in television history for me.  It seemed like an attempt at humor but we got the point 30 or so seconds in, why keep it going for what seemed like an eternity?

Outside of that Matthew Rhys is a terrific actor.

John J. Petrocelli

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With all due respect I couldn’t disagree more. This was the most fun I’ve had watching a tv series in quite awhile. I found the mix of comedy and horror perfect and I’m not particularly a fan of horror. I rewatched each of the episodes at least once just to catch things that I’d missed. The show was created by Katie Dippold who was a writer for Parks and Recreation and the office humor is very reminiscent of that show.
The homages to Jaws and Halloween and Lost are just a few of the treats here. From your review I can’t really understand why you are so strongly against it but to each their own. I will add that I enjoy a weekly drop of a show. Like The Pitt my wife and I looked forward to each new episode and didn’t feel rushed into watching episodes back to back and we got more out of them.
Enjoy your emails and appreciate your opinions even when I disagree.

Kevin Bennett

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I actually thought there were a couple of good episodes. There was some good tension in there, and I really didn’t mind some of the baloney that was happening… I think the reality is that they’re dragging it out to 10 episodes when they could easily bring it down to eight. I think the episodes are too short and that’s why they turn it into Ten shows… they should each be 15 minutes long and bring it down to eight.. my wife and I never watch week two week anymore.. we wait till there’s at least 3/4 of the episodes done before we’ll watch it.. and I think that gets us into the show more.. so at that point, I really can’t go and kill it because we’ve gotten into a flow  with it. Still much bigger hyped than what it was worth..

Peace,

Jason Miles

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I enjoyed it! It’s not that unusual to have a show / movie that is crepey but has humorous moments.  Knives out for example. I know tons of ppl who love it

Evan Rogers

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I’m sorry you hated it — God knows I’ve invested time in streaming shows that I wished I had back — but “Widow’s Bay” is my favorite show in years, full stop. Once my wife and I found out the episodes dropped at 9pm EST Tuesdays, we planned the night around it in old-school Appointment Television fashion.

I can’t recall seeing a show that balances multiple tones and tensions so skillfully, with the scares landing as effectively as the gags. The acting is laser-focused from the leads to the secondary characters, and the world-building shows thought and care.

And this is why I appreciate reading what you have to say, ‘cos I am fully and completely surprised that this didn’t land for you. But that’s the nice thing about this moment in time — on to the next show.

Best, Erick Haight

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We couldn’t figure out WHAT this show was supposed to be, genuinely creepy or creepy funny. I thought the last episode wth Ruth, unsinkable “I will be leaving work at 3” Ruth, was great, and of COURSE it was stingy at the end set up Season 2.

The party reveal with Patricia’s punch recipe and instructions was hilarious.

But most importantly, I now know how to spell “fakokta.” Boning up on my Yiddish glossary!

Cheers,

Henry Eshelman

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Don’t go all meshuga on me here, but I believe it’s actually spelled Fakakta. 🙂

Harry Levy

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It was slow.  Weird. Incomprehensible at times.  Uneven acting.

That’s said it had just enough to finish it.  Could I recommend it?  Not really.

Would I watch season 2?  When there is so little to watch at times and searching gets to be such a drag, at times?  Maybe.

Larry Lootsteen

Waterloo, ON

Canada

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Wish you had written this BEFORE I watched it, Bob. What a waste and had to be one of the most disappointing finales I’ve ever seen.

Brad Ketchum III

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Watched it and loved it. Just the right amount of wry humor, wit, spooky stuff and jump scares  (but not gratuitously gory like 90% of the mediaverse.  Rhys plays it straight and all of the characters are quirky and wonderful. What’s a matter with you Bob? I usually agree with all of your recommendations.

Cathy Hausman in Mamaroneck

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Well you can’t be right about everything, but I really liked Widow’s Bay.

Gary Wisner

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The self contained episode 6 was the beginning of the end. Downhill from that point onwards. Can’t get that time back

Andrew Richardson

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The plot came full circle for me when the bloodline reveal happened. That came out of nowhere and was perfectly executed. The fact that it sets up a new season is irrelevant to me. If the show ended forever after this season, I’d be fully satisfied. Not fond of “endings” to begin with. I like a dangling cliffhanger.

Steve Schalchlin

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I think you’re in idiot if you don’t like this show.

It’s X-Files in its balance and Rhys and the supporting cast balance horror and comedy brilliantly.

The whole “he was taken by the fog” bit in episode one was worth the cost of admission. It gets better though if you’re willing to wait until the evil hostess party bit. How is that not the perfect balance of funny and macabre?

Trey Zenker – NYC

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It’s the worst – started off ok jumped the zombie shark and got stoopid fast – watch it win awards with a big awareness campaign and cringe away.

Luke Joerger

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We always line up Bob…I feel the same way about Widow’s Bay.

Sam Jones

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I really tried to watch this show because I really liked Rhys in that Netflix show “The Beast in Me” w Claire Danes. Rhys was really good in that.

But the first episode of “Widow’s Bay” was so slow and so not funny that my wife and I just could not get through it.

We just looked at each other and said “nah” and then we watched a 10 year old episode of “SVU” and we were much happier.

thanks,
Mark Feldman

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Anyone who doesn’t like this show:
1. Has terrible taste
2. Missed half of it because they were on their phone.

It’s the funniest show I ever seen in a long time. Give Kate O’Flynn the Emmy now.

Ben Nesvig

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This is a series that flummoxed us. Some amazing episodes. Some downright ridiculous (digging up the old mayor for example. But the end. How can this be? A cliffhanger is one thing, but this ending resolved nothing. Felt like a waste.

Bob Menzies

Vancouver Island

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I watched it walking on the treadmill to pass time. My wife asked me if it was good. I told her only if there is nothing else to watch.

David Schurr

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I wanted to like it but when they had a 500 year old person it jumped the shark!

Randy Wind

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OMG Bob, we couldn’t agree more! We just finished the last two episodes and were so happy to read your view since we kept saying throughout both “This is SOOOO BO-RING”!

Also agree that the two episodes you highlighted were amusing, as was the homage to Michael Myers. Though the latter was primarily because of Kate O’Flynn, who was great throughout.

Probably won’t bother with S2, since you know that Tom will never throw that trolley switch…

Milton Lewin

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Wisdow’s Bay was everything that you said and more. The writing was on the whole terrific- why – because it focused on “character,” unique, specific, and most off them a mix of tragic and comic, unusual. And it was very funny… until it got scary. Then it got scary and did that well. So it was intentionally a hybrid genre w/a mixed tone.  Not easy to do, yet they pulled it off for the most part. I did agree with you that in the end there was a big “huh”, a let down or a “so what” factor. That was disappointing. It needed to be more of a whammy so to speak. Just FYI Hitchcock said he wouldn’t embark on a narrative unless it had 13 whammies (major story beats – like first leavening that the island is cursed). This is why Tarrantino says that series aren’t nearly as satisfying as features except for the great series because they can just go on and not commit. Remember the end of season one of Fleabag. It’s an f’n whammy of a higher order, an epiphany. This one went out “not with a bang, but a whimper.” I still thought the writing and directing and acting were terrific, but if an ending doesn’t pay off big-time, as Ricky Ricardo says “you’ve got some ‘splaining to do.”

Howie Wiseman
former cellist with rock band Lighthouse
associate professor emeritus, screenwriting

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Yeah I made it about 1.5 episodes and then Tapped out

Jason Taylor

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I loved it and surprised that you did not mention the character Dale. Patricia was terrific. But Dale was done so well, so over the top, such great dour expressions and in that season finale, RUN! I think I peed my pants.

Roy Pascarella

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Couldn’t agree more! Watched the first episode and couldn’t buy in. Matthew Reyes is one of my favorite actors, but this series is a waste of time.

Keith Bishop

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not a big fan of this, and of horror ghost stuff, but bc of reviews and rhys I watched.  I agree, there are some epiosodes I really enjoyed, and it did start out slow, I almost gave up. but its not bad and i liked it much better than  4 seasons-i didnt love S1 and gave up on S2 pretty quickly

Brian Barry Esq.

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Sometimes I feel we are not experiencing  the same show or same recordings.

Other times I think you’re in my room watching the same show or listening to the same record  but in this case, if you don’t think that K  Callan AS RUTH  doesn’t deserve an Emmy for her performance in the finale and that the show doesn’t set up season two absolutely perfectly Then you and I are absolutely not on the same Jimi page!

Morley Bartnoff

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This is a show where your really need to put your phone down.  There are so many quiet little throwaways that are hysterical.

Tim Redman

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It’s a comedy first, not second. If you saw it that way from the start you may have enjoyed it more. It’s one of the better shows Ive seen in years.

Bob Kalill

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Thanks, Bob, for confirming my initial thoughts on the show after watching 2 episodes.

So we left it and have gone back to some classic movies and shows.

Watched Midnight Cowboy, Taxi Driver, Apocolypse Now, Godfather 1, 2, 3 and are currently watching Deadwood (on season 3 and then the movie) and The Wire is next on our list. We’ve seen all of these before, they are so good they are worth watching again.

And so much better than Widow’s Bay.

Best Wishes,

Jim Wills

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I could barely get past your first line which included the word fakokta.. I heard it many times growing up but have never thought how it was spelled..thanks for the laugh!! Maybe I’ll watch Widows Bay, maybe not.

Best,

Dayle Levy

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Bob – I will accept farkakte, ferkakte,  nothing less

deborah wilker

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Widow’s Bay season 1 was fun enough but all the hoopla I see online about it is overkill. I’m a fan of Stephen King style horror and loved how the show runners didn’t take themselves too seriously. They have fun with the classic horror tropes, there is some great comedy and characters, and some truly frightening bits. But, ultimately, I agree that sometimes the show just fell flat and dragged. The “twist” was easy to spot from a mile away.

This isn’t on the same level of a Breaking Bad, Sopranos, the Wire, or even Severance, etc. It’s good, not great…yet. I’ll definitely see how Season 2 shapes up. Perhaps this show will get stronger with more seasons.

Sean Geraty

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I loved Widows Bay. I thought it was a hoot. And I loved it precisely because it kept me offkilter the entire time. The show has an inspired cast, but for me what distinguishes it is the writing. It’s really fresh and confident and I appreciate all the left turns.

I know you’re really down on streamers that dole out content week by week but sometimes it works to let us savor a good show. It becomes “appointment television” and the anticipation is part of the fun.

TomKB

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It’s a terrific show. The build in the conversation week by week is a big part of its success. You’re missing the podcast tv world which has become a major aspect of marketing and analysis. It’s fine if it’s not for you. I’ll say the ending was not as strong, I’ll give you that. All the best from Delaware!

Ron Ozer

Programming – Elkton Music Hall

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The only thing this waste of time revealed is that it is abject garbage… Good morning Bob

Charles Michael Green

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Thanks Bob,

I wasn’t sure how I felt, but fakokta sums it up nicely…

J.B. Brenner

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It’s one of those shows (the majority of shows nowadays) which are neither good nor bad.

They are beige.

But yeah, Rhys is a very fine actor.

And I ain’t watching Cape Fear. If Javier Bardem is boycotting Israel, well, I am boycotting you back, you…(expletive of your own choosing.)

All love,

Baptiste-Elias Piégay-Natanson

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I don’t know what ‘fakokta’ means, but it *sounds* like a perfect description of this show. We just finished watching the finale and sat there looking at each other thinking “we spent how many hours watching this fakokta?”

You expect resolution, with maybe a hint that there could be another season. Not this time. No, most things unresolved, and new clues(what happened to the guy in the shelter basement?. The reveal about Tom’s son. Is Ruth still alive?

I did enjoy the acting, particularly Kate O’Flynn, and of course Stephen Root (whom you didn’t mention).

I’ll watch season 2, if there is one.

Phil Schawe

PS – OK I looked it up:  messed up, ridiculous, broken, or utterly foolish

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You asked, I actually liked it. Some episodes better than others. Betty Gilipin, always watchable and the Boogeyman episode was tense. It was an original story line.  So much of the same stuff on streaming, this was different.  4 out of 5 stars.

Alan Segal