Hi Bob, as you know…

My late father in law Larry Uttal owned Bell Records, which he sold to Columbia Pictures in the 70s.  Fed up with working for Columbia, he left after his deal was up to start another label, and was replaced by Clive, who renamed Bell Records as Arista. And Arista’s first hits were by artists that Larry had signed—Barry Manilow, Melissa Manchester and the Bay City Rollers.

Clive spent the next 50 years trying to rewrite history, even spinning Larry’s Billboard obituary to suggest Arista was created out of whole cloth and wasn’t a continuation of Bell.  When I called the Billboard writer who I’d spoken to as he was writing the obit, he said, almost apologetically, “I know, but Clive is very sensitive about this and he’s a big advertiser.”

When the ‘definitive’ book on Arista came out a few years ago, the first 40 pages were entirely about Larry, his career, and Bell.  Clive must have been apoplectic.

As you point out, on the other end of the spectrum were execs like Mo Ostin, who I had the great fortune to work for.

Mo never did interviews. Ever.  It was Mo’s philosophy that the artist should be getting all of the press, not him. To my knowledge, in all of his years in the business Mo did only two interviews. One was for a PBS documentary about David Geffen, talking about Geffen, not himself—and I’d imagine that was at Geffen’s behest. The other was for a book about Warner Bros. Records, long after he’d retired.  And he was pressured into that.

I thought what you wrote was right on. Clive may have been behind many hit records, but people like Mo and Ahmet signed enduring artists.

All the best,

Jeff Gold

Recordmecca.com

SittinIn.com

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Credit where it’s genuinely due, your Clive Davis piece is not only accurate, it’s unusually candid. You laid out the reality with clarity, receipts, and a willingness to say plainly what many prefer to leave implied. That’s rarer than it should be.

You’ve chosen to document it in a way that doesn’t look away or soften the edges. That takes a measure of conviction, especially when the easier path is to preserve the mythology.

Allen Kovac
Someone Who Was in the Room

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My band Native was the first Jamaican or reggae band to sign to Arista Records back in 1979.

I remember delivering my album and them telling me that they were not crazy about the album.

So I explained that maybe they don’t understand reggae. They said DONT TELL ME ABOUT REGGAE, I KNOW JOHN MARLEY PERSONALLY !! So I disappeared rather than tell them that the name is Bob!!

But as far as record men, although Clive knew a hit, he did not have the magic ears and credibility of my favorite record man of all time Chris Blackwell. Chris created some of the greatest artists of all time who had hits, credibility and careers. U2, Steve Winwood, Cat Stevens, Roxy Music, Amy Winehouse.

Clive had Milli, Blackwell had Marley!!

Native Wayne Jobson

Los Angeles

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Clive came to speak at a work event I attended last fall and everything you shared below aligns with my impression of him. We were told to watch his doc before the event and come prepared with questions, but only 2-3 questions were able to be asked because he ended up just speaking endlessly and repeating all of the details and stories we already heard in the documentary, and the information wasn’t even relevant to the questions that were asked.

I hate to say it, but I came away unimpressed and pretty disappointed with the experience. I was looking forward to some genuine insight from someone with decades of experience, but it ended up just being 45 minutes of self promotion. On the plus side it made me feel more confident about my ability to carve out a meaningful career in the music business if he was considered the pinnacle of success.

I have no desire for public facing accolades or success. As long as the artists I work with and my bosses are happy with my work then I’m thrilled. I think that’s why so many of my colleagues get into the business side in the first place. We love music and the mechanics involved in getting it to people, but we don’t have any desire to actually be on stage ourselves and prefer to work in the background. I’ve always been wary of the business person who seems to seek the stage and spotlight for themselves.

Appreciate your honest assessment here.

-Ben Mathewson

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I don’t know enough to either agree or disagree on your opinion of Clive Davis however sending this soon after his death is announced.  It just feels plain mean to me and you are better than that!

Mark O’Neill

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I AGREE

CLIVE was an attention seeker— no– he snatched it all up if was due him or not. The amount of attention his passing got on CNN alone was ….. gross..

Highly ironic that Stevie Wonder told hapless Anderson Cooper that ” his favorite CLive melody” was I Will Always Love You… written by Dolly Parton in 1973 and released in 1974

I highly doubt without a talented team around him in A&R- retail marketing publicity and promotions- if he would

have been able to take credit for half the things he took credit for.

give him kudos for surrounding himself with executive talent- and list the artists his team discovered

and broke – not give him all the credit for everything.

Well written Bob…

Chris Long

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I am unsubscribing from your newsletter.  Considering the timing, this is beyond tasteless and disrespectful. RIP Clive Davis.

Thea Hopkins

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It took fifteen people at the label to approve a song for Whitney Houston and she wasn’t one of them.

Joel Selvin

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My production company makes short (2-3 minutes) films that play every year at an annual “8 Over 80” gala here in NYC, honoring eight people over the age of 80 who have led impressive lives are still going strong.  The organization that runs the event, the New Jewish Home, decided on the format because they knew – and know – that no one likes to sit through long speeches at these kinds of events.  The films are an effective way to keep the focus on the honorees, and keep the evening short.

When Clive Davis was selected back in 2018, in advance of the filming, we told him what we tell all the honorees: 

A short film of three minutes or so is not nearly long enough to cover an entire person’s life story, so we are liberated from having to hit all the highlights of a person’s career. 

Instead, I said, we can focus on just one aspect of your life or career, something people don’t know much about. Maybe just a single artist, maybe a hobby people don’t know about, maybe a favorite cause, or a single story.

Especially with someone whose career is so well-known (and about whom there’d already been a complete feature-length biographical documentary), trying to tell the whole story is a fool’s errand.

“So,” I asked Mr. Davis. “Any thoughts?”

“Yeah,” he said. “Do the whole thing.”

Nick Davis

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Go stand on your lawn and yell at people to “GET OFF MY LAWN”!

You have become one angry and bitter old man.

I feel sorry for you.

Dennis Paulik

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Joe Smith. Yes.

Jac Holzman too.

And Seymour Stein.

Herb & Jerry?

Chris & Terry?

And for all the talk about taking over a “failing” Bell, Larry Uttal built an indie machine that continually delivered hit singles, including in 1974, at the end when it WASN’T failing.  OK, maybe he didn’t transition to albums as well as the others, but he did sign the Bay City Rollers, Barry Manilow, Melissa Manchester and Lou Rawls, who all delivered gold and platinum for Clive.

Toby Mamis

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Thanks for your honest opinion on this.  I think you really nailed it

The idea of “selling out” is what we as young aspiring musicians always talked about in the 90’s.  I think Clive Davis epitomized that paradigm as you pointed out:

“What they want is Clive Davis to put them up front and center, to promote them to the world.”

Also about his ego trip:

I saw an interview with him about Whitney Houston, where he was very self satisfied and totally appeared to be taking credit for her success, as a singer.

Cheers
Alex Specht

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This much earned vitriol and nothing on the Bar Mitzvah?!?!!!

Probably a wise move.

Gregg DeMammos

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I knew this email was coming from you long before Clive’s passing.  This makes you look like a small man.  Today everyone is their own brand., their own IP. Clive knew that 50 years ago.  Instead of giving Clive credit for what he was great at – you dismiss him on his death.  Yet every major media out and artists he has worked with have spoken of his greatness. Go figure.  He just didn’t fit into the mold you like. Guess you weren’t invited to his Pre-Grammy parties.

Hosh Gureli

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Bingo.

Rik Shafer

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I produced a couple of albums for Arista. Sat with Clive in the control room one memorable afternoon when he made the trip from his Beverly Hills Hotel bungalow. And that afternoon convinced me to never trust a man who doesn’t wear socks.

Cheers,

Chris Desmond

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I’ve had the unique privilege to work with every major music executive since 1982 – Mo, Ahmet, Geffen, Seymour , Herb & Jerry, Blackwell , Doug Morris Roger Ames and Clive.

They were all great and unique and with different strengths  however , Clive’s diversity and impact was greater than any other

Andy Kipnes

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Back in the early 90’s the BMG Canada crew flew to Seattle for the BMG North America conference. I was relatively new to the company. Prior to the Arista presentation I was told by one of my more seasoned colleagues to make sure I went to the bathroom before Clive’s presentation and to bring a coat and a snack. It was blistering hot in Seattle and we had just had lunch. Why? I asked. My colleague said, “You’ll see”. Clive’s presentation was endless. You were forbidden to leave your table to go to the bathroom or Clive would call you out from the stage, and Clive had the hotel turn the air conditioning to a meat locker temperature to make sure no one nodded off. The last act he presented was Barry Manilow. Other label heads had showcased some of their artists by having them play live or they played us new, unreleased recordings. Clive had no new music by Manilow and the artist was not present. We had to endure what must have been an hour of old Manilow music, Clive testifying to Manilow’s brilliance and boring the crap out of all of us. I was now initiated into the Clive experience.

Regards,

Steven Ehrlick

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Thanks for this brave piece on this a$$hole. This is anecdotal I know, but after years of record collecting I always noticed that the few Arista titles I’d buy were always pressed horribly.

Rob Pachol

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This piece written about Clive Davis, and on the day that he passed away is so disrespectful and mean and not even accurate.

I feel badly for you that you chose to write and distribute this.

When you pass away, I trust people will be more sensitive to you than you consciously chose to be to Clive Davis and his family.

Eddie OLoughlin

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It had to be said
This is why I subscribe

All the best
George Silva

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Good obit. The comparison with the Tin Pan Alley period is apt: Clive really did signal a return to that formula (along with the boy bands in the 90s). “Pro songwriters & fungible pretty faces” sums it up these days. Tho one wonders how many of this period’s hits will end up in the Great American Songbook

Big Al

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Not real sure why you wrote this. A lot of what you said about Clive is probably true, but why now and this harsh. In my 30 years in the music business I believe like you it is always about the artist. People would say to us when Amy Grant broke wide open you guys are so smart and I would always say we were lucky. It was the artist not us. I will always be thankful those who helped us Jim Gercio, Jerry Moss, Ed Rosenblatt and John Huie at CAA. And especially John Eastman.

Dan Harrell

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Your perspective on Davis’ career is most welcome, particularly in the current hurricane of slavish adulation.

Thank you for shining a light.

Nigel Russell

Toronto, Canada

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Loved this piece, Bob! It amused me that the next message in my inbox was a typically fawning obit in MBW. I much preferred your take.

Nigel Harding

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Hi Bob, I can not agree more with you “he wrote a book about his career there. 1974’s “Clive: Inside the Record Business” was very different from the man’s 2013 tome, “The Soundtrack of My Life.” The latter was a victory lap, it was unreadable hagiography. “I did this and then I did that and aren’t I great!” Well, the true greats don’t have to tell us they are.”. When I started at CBS 1978 I got his book and read it many times, best book ever. Then when the new one came I threw it away…but his 6 hours product presentations were outstanding with him sitting like a king on a podium and firing questions to local radio promoters why certain singles weren´t doing well…what a man.

Anders Hjelmtorp

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Clive Davis deserves all of the accolades he received in the many obituaries. He did a terrific job with every artist in his purview and was a true gentleman.

I regularly saw Clive at industry events and concerts. He was always warm, gracious, and kind.

Your bitter, vicious post about Clive Davis is an insult to this wonderful man and his lasting legacy. Clive was deeply loved by his artists and many people in the industry.

Clive deserved much better from you.

Judith Arden

New York City

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You are a small pathetic man.  Clive was a giant.

Glenn Whitehead

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I was Executive Vice President for a LONG year.  Always said, Clive is the greatest music man that ever was and the worst music businessman.

Bill Berger

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You nailed it! Perfectly.

If we ever connect real time, I will share a few antidotes.

Stay well and hug your loved ones.

All the best,

Jim Caparro

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What you said about Clive may indeed be all true, but I do think it did not have to be printed right after his death. It would probably have been more effective a few weeks later. Not sure what the rush was.

Regards,

Bill Migicovsky

Montreal

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Sad to see the passing of Clive Davis.  He was always very nice to me and offered me marketing jobs at Arista twice.  I thought I was too rock-album-oriented and too methodical for Clive.  I just didn’t think he would have the patience for a guy like me.  I didn’t think I would do well in his system.  It did get me a couple of nice raises at Sony Music, though, and I was always appreciative of his interest.  In my early days at Leber-Krebs Management, I worked on marketing Beatlemania while we were still in development at the Colonial Theater in Boston. Steve Leber and I pitched CBS-TV on a prime-time musical special, and they bought it.  I ran into Clive at Michael’s restaurant in NYC as I was leaving just before we opened the show at the Winter Garden Theater, and he asked how it was going.  I told him that ticket sales were doing great and about the TV commitment.  By the time I walked back to the office, Clive was on the phone to Steve Leber and had bought the soundtrack album.  I always thought it was funny, trying to think of who would buy that soundtrack when they could buy a Beatles greatest hits album.

All the best,

Dan Beck

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Wow talk about scathing..but the reality is you speak the truth. I can go back to a couple of things I saw in front of me. There was the story how Clive discovered Whitney Houston but if you were in New York City during that time  you knew that wasn’t true.. many knew about Cissy  Huston‘s daughter and although Clive took all the credit it was Gerry Griffith that first heard her singing at Sweetwater and brought her up to Clive… many knew what the real story was, but that was the deal. But the thing that really got my head spinning was at Arif Mardin’s memorial in NYC. It was a beautiful night when so many greats in the music world came out for this memorial.. Norah Jones sang, Bette Midler, Eddie Brigatti  from the Rascals.. and other luminaries that spoke and were humble and recognized the greatness of Arif and the true genius that he was and the effect that he had on so many great artists. And then who was the last to speak? Clive….. and he definitely made it so it was all about him in some very bizarre way… I was sitting there in the audience, just dumbfounded how the whole script could just be flipped in a second from this guy. But that was the way he was and that was how he was sold and that’s how he sold himself and in that case, it was very successful.
There is no doubt about it, though that Clive was one of a kind… no matter what you thought of them that was the impression that he is leaving. The guys that made the big differences like Mo Oustin and Ahmet will never come around again.. and for sure you won’t see another Clive Davis again..

Peace,Jason Miles

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I will never, ever forget the night Clive launched Whitney to all the executives he’d flown in from his distributors around the world …he’d hired a theatre in New York and there were about a 150 of us present, rather lost in such a large venue…Clive proceeded to harangue us from an empty stage about how this was going to be the biggest thing ever blah, blah…then plays the album through, with track by track commentary..from beginning to end…then gave us another half hour lecture on how she should be marketed and launched etc, then proceeded to play the album, in its entirety all over again… by this stage, 2 and a half hours in, most of us jet lagged exces would have paid money just to leave…but it was Clive, so we fought back the tiredness and tuffed it out…

Egotistical, self important twat was my take out of Clive and I never saw or heard anything since that would change that view.

Regards
Victor Stent
New Zealand.

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Totally fair to prefer classic rock to pop Bob but I Wanna Dance With Somebody will still loved and remembered for as long as anything from the classic rock era. And I was just reading The New Cue’s interview yesterday with Danny McNamara of Embrace (UK indie rock band from the 90s):

“What was the first record you loved?
Barry Manilow. I was about 8 and I wanted a ghettoblaster and my mum got me a tape deck with a radio on it. She bought Barry Manilow for herself but that was the one I used to play all the time. The first time I ever fell in love, I was eight years old, it was this girl at school called Sharon Pownall. I’d take my ghettoblaster to the end of her street and sit watching her house to see if she came out and play Barry Manilow. I Made It Through The Rain was a really big song for me as an eight-year-old, which is kind of ironic cos you haven’t really been through the wringer as an eight-year-old but it really feels like that when you first fall in love.”

Yours,

Joe Taylor

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I have no skin in the game here, but I’m guessing that many of your subscribers will be reflecting on the passing of someone they knew, worked with, were friends with… Perhaps you could have given these people a minute to settle before sharing your thoughts? Perhaps you could have toned down the language just a bit? Be kind – someone just died.

Cheers

Andy Fordyce

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That was a very mean spirited article even by your snarky standards.

When it comes to ‘tooting your horn’ nobody does it better than you Bob.

I didn’t know Clive Davis but he was IN the music business..Bob you’re on the sidelines lobbing meaningless drivel.

Best Wishes

Thomas Black

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Oof! Interesting and insightful as ever Bob. Bet you get some blow-back on this one!
Stay well… Pete Flatt

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..brilliant..you are a prolific writer.

Barbara Zats

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Songs written by committee are a rupture in the creative process. By design, a committee encourages groupthink and discourages self-expression. Imagine Dylan by committee. I’m no expert, but it smells like stabilization of profit is the culprit. Someone wanted a more dependable revenue stream, and the committee got the call. The committee produces vanilla music that sells enough and the investors won’t have to take chances on unknown acts that don’t fit the current standard. I hope some small label can sign a great act and break the mold. Something like Sun and Elvis.

Regards,

James Riley

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He gave us Laura Nyro.  Took all her songs, had hits with other Columbia artists at the time.  But it worked to where he could justify her making her own classic albums despite them not being a hit.

Annie Roboff

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I didn’t know Clive but he was approachable. I remember seeing him frequently in Toronto checking out bands. When asked, by a group of us, how he found time to come to Toronto he said — actually, New York is closer to Toronto than Chicago. I’ve always remembered that quick answer.

Michael Burke

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‘ I never knew the man, or cared either way, but right or wrong, your remarks are pretty cold-blooded Bob.

Like Trump saying “I’m glad he’s dead”.

Whoo boy

Dave Dalzell

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Bullseye.

Warm regards

Mark Burger

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Wow, Bob, tell us how you really feel!

A little jealous, maybe?

Thanks,

Ernie Canadeo

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This missive should be printed everywhere, for all to see. I’m glad that you wrote this…

As a record man, he couldn’t shine Ahmet’s shoes.

He also helped to ruin Rod Stewart’s musical path by putting out all of those schlock records.

Kevin Kiley

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Wow, Bob. You sh*tting on Clive was not on my bingo card. Oooof.
—Todd Campbell

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In 1980/81 when I was not involved with Gregg or The Allman Brothers Band they signed with Arista under Clive’s aegis and had two albums and a mid-chart single which they absolutely hated and broke up for the second time. Earlier on Capricorn with first Atlantic distribution and then WEA, I got to be around Phil Walden, Ahmet and Jerry, Mo and Joe. Now those were some fun times and I learned a lot about the music business.

Willie Perkins

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Amen, Bob. I’ve been seeing the tributes all afternoon, thinking to myself exactly what you’ve written here! Not only that, but I experienced it firsthand.

Back in the mid-90s, I made an album that Pete Townshend funded. (It never came out, but by coincidence, it’s finally coming out later this year.) Once we had some tracks done, Pete helped shop them. One of the lunches was with Clive.

My memory is that I was drunk and arrogant. But in retrospect, I just didn’t buy what Clive was selling. I was talking about my vision for the album and my career, and about what kind of artist I wanted to be, while Clive was focused on the sort of lowest common denominator chum I despised. Boy, did I piss him off when I pushed back. It was all very “don’t you know who I am, kid?” That’s why your comment about him being of a pre-Beatles mindset really struck a chord. It really did feel like Clive was all about the “How Much is That Doggy in the Window?” way of doing things.

But my abiding memory, and the first thing that popped into my head when I heard the news of his death, was how creepy Clive was. Like, Puffy level creepy. I was in my mid-20s at the time, so it was part of the terrain, but man was it gross.

And now he’s gone. Sure, he was an ancient white man, but it’s 2026. I’m shocked I’m not seeing more of what you wrote and what I remember. Or maybe it’s coming. I sure hope so.

Anyway, thanks for writing what I’ve been waiting all day for someone to write. No matter what blowback you get, there are plenty of us out here in the business that every bit of it rings true for.

Jeff Slate

NYC

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Jesus, dude.  It’s like you have a personal vendetta against this guy.   Even if everything you are saying is true, why is it an issue that he wasn’t the biggest or the greatest?  Clive is worth some recognition, and you have some pretty obvious animosity towards him.  Sure, you’re a journalist, but, then again, who are you?

No one will remember, just like you say no one will remember Clive.

Chris Friday

Warehouse Manager – Phish

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Please Mr.Lefsetz mute session would have been preferred at this time .

Danielle Lise Desrochers

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What an amazingly eloquent history lesson. Pay heed boys and girls.

Harold Love

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Pretty brutal even for you, Bob.

Lou Maresca

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Spot on ! Clive was wayyyy overrated !

Can you say “shooting fish in a barrel”!

Doug Pomerantz

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I generally enjoy your writing, but this one is really out of bounds. There’s really no need for this right after the guy died. The adage “If you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say anything at all” really applies here.

Be better.

Ed Hannan

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this prodigious musical guru. Perhaps he was during his era.

One omission in your narrative was the public feud between Clive Davis and Kelly Clarkson that he detailed in his memoir. She fought to keep the rock edge of ‘Since U Been Gone,’ while Davis wanted it watered down. Fortunately, she prevailed, and the result was one of the most iconic and influential pop (rock) songs of the 2000s.

Arash Shirazi

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Wow.
Clap clap!

Galen Hudson

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There was not enough love in the world for Clive Davis. The boy from Brooklyn was always trying to convince us he was worthy. Only someone extremely insecure would need to promote himself to this degree.

Pretty harsh for a dude who had to make it in the world despite the trauma of losing parents at young age. Of course he’s messed up and had to fight for himself.  He had no one else!

Best,
Brian Winston
Massachusetts

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Getting older, thinking about legacy… then I remember that for 5 years (1978-1982), guess who the biggest movie star in the world was? Betcha never guessed Burt Reynolds.

Fame is fleeting and though they might last a little longer, even the rich and famous will fade into obscurity…

Already obscure,
Drew Arnott

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appreciate your telling it like you know and mean it…
and not bowing to the obligatory praise the dead.

Hong Son

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The guy just died for crying out loud.  I’m sure his family and friends don’t appreciate your timing let alone unkind words. You could’ve waited a respectful time and then said what you wanted to. Bad form, Bob. Bad form. Unnecessarily nasty.

Ken Green

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And in contrast with Clive Davis is Chris Blackwell..

Let’s wish the boss a happy birthday – 89 years young – a man who transformed the landscape of contemporary music in ways that people can only dream of or dare to imagine in 2026.

Lee Ginty

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A well deserved take on Clive’s hustle.  The tell will be the funeral/memorial.  It won’t be well attended or if it is, it will be people of his ilk, those who share the same preoccupation with mindless self promotion.

John Brodey

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Coulda just said ‘rest in peace Clive’

Denise Lutz

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For cultural impact I say Seymour Stein was the goat of A&R executives.

Steve Tipp

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As a true music executive, Clive was absolutely not in the league of Ahmet, Mo Ostin, Seymour Stein, Bruce Lundvall, Leonard Chess, Sam Phillips, Jac Holzman, Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss, Jerry Wexler, Chris Blackwell, Creed Taylor…

He signed Janis, BS&T, Chicago (CTA), Laura Nyro, et al post-Monterey bring Columbia Records to huge young audiences.  A business decision.

I always felt he was a master self-promoter who understood hits for the music marketplace rather than really understanding music on any seriously level.

And your last statement is so accurate – the great Arista releases by Patti Smith, Lou Reed, a couple by The Kinks, and a few others proved the exceptions to the rule.

Thanks for the truth, Bob!

Best,

Danny Kapilian

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I completely agree with your take on Clive Davis.

I will say, though there are exceptions that he signed as “fresh” talent especially within niche rock communities that are still revered, even though he did derail their career with his hit seeking mentality.  Jeff Healey, for example.

The first Jeff Healey Band album See the Light, had the big crossover ballad hit, no doubt heavily pushed by Davis, Angel Eyes, but the rest of the album was pure, blues rock authenticity with wicked vicious electric guitar playing, like Stevie Ray Vaughan with more distortion and aggression. In the era of Stevie Ray Vaughan, I think Jeff Healey was Clive’s attempt to get in on some of that action. And like you stated instead of leaving well enough alone, once most us in the rock and blues rock guitar community discovered Jeff was more than that ballad, and he was BLIND, playing and wailing on guitar the way he did, Jeff was getting some serious traction. But like you stated, Clive doesn’t want to leave well enough alone and thought he knew better. So of course, instead of realizing he’s got a career artist for the label, he starts meddling on the second album, demanding a slicker more polished sound. His second release Hell to Pay, it’s still a great album with Jeff’s stellar cover of While My Guitar Gently Weeps with George Harrison and Jeff Lynn adding backing vocals, and Jeff doing a Mark Knopfler penned song(I Think I Love You Too Much), with Mark, providing guitar and backing vocals, having modest success, sonically the album lacked the fire of the first album thanks to the slicker production sound. Predictably sales were less than the first album.

There was one more proper studio album, Feel This, and then what for all intents and purposes feels like a contract fulfillment album of covers called Cover to Cover, and I think Jeff was done with Arista. He still maintained a small career until his death, play more traditional, blues, and jazz, as jazz trumpet was actually his first love and opened up his own jazz club in Toronto, but in my opinion, Clive completely wasted the potential of what Jeff could do for the label in terms of credibility.  Like you stated, he thought in short-term hits versus long-term legacies. Ironic that he was doing it in the hopes of establishing his own long-term legacy.

Michael Moniz

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And Clive, to paraphrase Tom Petty (RIP) “didn’t  hear a single on our friend Eric Carmen’s, “Boats  Against the Current” Album that you’ve touted as a favorite. At the EC50 tribute show we did last November,  Eric sang his song vocal (courtesy of Sony.)

 

A 13 year old concert pianist prodigy,! Mikey Klein, recorded Eric’s exquisite piano part in advance in 2 takes! Live it was fretless bass (me!) along with first album drummer, Don Krueger, and the Lakewood Project  Orchestra – high school kids who learn classical music by ear first, then notation under the tutelage of Dr. Elizabeth Hankins.

Goes to show how Clive completely “missed the Boat” on this wonderful piece of music. I’m already seeing “Boats” garnering a lower level but similar degree of late term respect that Pet Sounds has.

In the other hand, Clive was a one of a kind. Got to meet him 2x. He knew a pop hit when he heard it as you said.

We’re losing the historic music business and artists. Sadly, I don’t see many new pioneers-just labels sliding AI clauses into their new artist agreements. Glad to see Irving leading “ The Rising” against it.

Stephen Knill

(Note: Note: “Boats Against the Current” was a song suite submitted with a specific running order beginning with “Run Away” and ending with “Boats Against the Current.” Eric Carmen told me that Clive insisted on reversing the running order on the ultimately released album.)

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I have a Clive story.

It’s around 1991 or 92 I think, give or take.

When I was coming up in NYC as young drummer, I was given the opportunity to play in a band that was being courted by Arista.

I jumped at the chance.  The music was good, the players were good, and I understood the implications of Clive’s power.

So, I started rehearsing and playing shows with them and then the keyboard player told the band that Clive wanted to see us live.

But, Clive didn’t want to come to a club, he wanted us to put together a private showcase for him.

So, we played for Clive in the keyboard player’s brownstone, in the living room.

It was an audience of three, Clive, Tom Corson (his head of Marketing –I think) …. and Mitchell Cohen (who i think was Clive’s Head of A&R at the time).

I guess we did OK because the band got signed (I’ll happily tell you privately who the band was but I’d rather not put it this public forum).

Now, it’s well-known, as you pointed out, that Clive liked to tinker with his acts creatively. I would go so far as to say he would micro-manage.

But, that was the price you’d pay for stardom.  And as distasteful creatively as his ideas often were, if you wanted “the push,” you’d take Clive’s advice.

In fact, more than that, if you wanted the push, you’d be smart to tell Clive that his ideas were genius and implement them, even if you hated them.

Because the truth is that often, artists don’t get more than one legitimate shot in this game.

And in 1992, as a musician, having Clive put the power of Arista behind you could change your life.

I always figured that if you were going to sign with a label like Arista, the whole point would be to let Clive mold you.

Right? Because if you sign with Clive, and you do everything he says, there’s a decent shot he’s going to get you a pretty good shot at pop stardom.

This is one of the big reasons I joined that band.

A few months later the keyboard player and singer went to meet with Clive to talk about the first record.

And they came back from the meeting and told us (the rest of the band) that Clive had a lot of ideas but that they didn’t really like many of them.

In fact they told us—like it was a good thing—that they told Clive they weren’t going to do most of things he asked.

My heart sank when I heard this.  Because I knew that was the end of the band’s chance of anything happening at Arista.

So, not long after that, I quit the band. Literally, a few weeks later,  I told them I didn’t want to make the record.

I believed the record would never come out, and I didn’t want to go through all of that work and not have the album released.

I was probably a bit too impulsive back in my twenties, because making another record at that level would have probably been a good thing for me…. that was probably short-sighted.

But, as it turns out, the record was not ever released.

So, the moral of the story was; with Clive, if you wanted to be successful (at  a possible creative cost….yes, admittedly)…..you’d have to do what he said or you’re out.

Thanks for being honest, Bob

Regards,

Mark Feldman

Boston (formerly of NYC)

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“When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.” That quote was spoken by newspaper editor Maxwell Scott in the 1962 western The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. It referred to the power of myth-making and that a culturally significant story is sometimes preferable to the factual truth.

It’s hard to argue with what you’ve written except to say it could have been told in a kinder way. But that’s OK, I remain a fan of the no holds barred Lefsetz method.

As we watch the media espouse the legend, and although all acts signed to a label must be done with a president’s pen, it is important to note that Bruce Springsteen was brought to the label by John Hammond and little known fact, Aerosmith was discovered by a Columbia A&R man (who I remember being there for less than a year) named Ray Colcord who talked the label into signing them. Yes, Clive signed The Dead but I don’t think that would have happened without Michael Klenfner’s introduction and counterculture credibility. And for all the hits, only us who were there can name the many misses.

But having said all that, I must tell you, I worked for seven presidents during my time at Columbia. And the two smartest ones were Clive Davis and Don Ienner (who is a Clive Davis protege). Both had a 24/7 work ethic and both had a sixth sense and vision about the possibilities for their artists.

Clive had the most amazing memory and he took an all-hands approach like I’ve never seen before. Here is a story which indebted me to him for life.

In 1972 I was in my second year as local album promotion man for Los Angeles and surrounding areas. I worked all formats but of course my favorite was FM rock radio. A new band was formed called West, Bruce, and Laing and being a guitar guy I totally fell in love with Leslie West weaving his guitar licks alongside Jack Bruce’s bass lines with Corky Laing providing the big drum engine which drove the whole thing. I turned LA upside down for these guys in anticipation of their November debut at the Hollywood Palladium. Heavy airplay on all four FM rock radio stations and unique promotions on each was only topped by the over-the-top party I threw after the show. I blew the budget on a food sculpturist who created a whole New York scene replete with the Brooklyn Bridge’s iconic suspension cables created with string cheese! Keith Moon was there as he was a friend of Leslie’s. The entire event was the talk of the town for weeks.

Bud Prager was the manager, and I don’t know what was up with him the week of the show but all he did was complain about the supposed lack of effort I’d showed for his band. He kept hammering me every day with stupid sh*t like “Why don’t I hear their record on the radio?” He even complained about the party and made me have breakfast with him the on the Saturday after to dress me down and pontificate on how to throw a party.

I wasn’t one who expected thank-yous but I’d literally worked myself sick for West, Bruce, and Laing and just couldn’t take the abuse. On Monday morning I poured my heart out to regional promotion man Chuck Thagard. Somehow word got back to Clive.

Clive Davis was a very busy man working with top level artists, managers, promoters, etc. I didn’t even think he knew who I was, but apparently he knew WHO EVERYBODY WORKING FOR HIM was. He called Bud and MADE BUD PRAGER APOLOGIZE TO ME. Bud called and reported what Clive had told him. “Bud, I don’t know what you think, but Paul Rappaport is one of our new up-and-coming superstars of promotion. Near as I can tell LA has exploded with West, Bruce, and Laing excitement. I want you to call Paul and apologize for your behavior.”

And, he did. I remember thinking when Bud called, with Clive’s backing I can really blow this guy a new a**hole or I can take the high road and be a class act. How do I want to be known in this business? I chose the latter, thanked Bud for the call, was sorry for any misunderstanding he’d had, and reassured him how much I loved his act and how I would continue working 110% on their behalf. Thank you Clive Davis.

For all his downsides (and way too long speeches, haha), the man did reinvent himself three times over. I don’t know many who could even rise from the ashes like he did after being completely humiliated by CBS, much less do it again two more times. That is an unprecedented feat and takes some powerful courage.

Even at the height of his fame, he was always approachable with thoughtful words of wisdom after listening to a new artist’s tape I’d send now and then.

So, yeah, print the legend. He deserves it.

Paul Rappaport

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Just when I thought your missive on Grillo’s was going to be the best thing I read this week, Clive Davis dies. And you deliver a positively dill-lightful read.

Terence Reilly

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I knew you would be rough on Clive but this was brutal.  Please print the letters.   My bet, 90% of the writers will be fighting back for Clive.  Me too.

Lizzz Kritzer

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Wowee!

You might have to hire someone to start your car!!!

Mike Bone

I’m categorically against self-checkout.

I mean I’m already doing all the work. But it’s even worse, the machines are so theft-avoidant that you’ve got to follow a specific routine, not only scanning the item, but placing it on a platform to register its weight, grocery shopping is frustrating enough already.

And every time I’m forced into using self-checkout there’s a snafu, and I have to wait for a clerk to come along to reset the machine and…

It’s my own personal protest. And as a matter of fact, many retail stores are eliminating self-checkout because of the shrinkage problem.

Which means I have to wait in line and…

I need to plan to go to Costco. It’s an adventure, not a ramble around the block. I’ve got to find a parking space, navigate the people and their carts and hope what I want is in stock and wait to check out, but…

I needed more Vitarain Zero. There’s nothing worse than running out of a staple. Like Chobani coffee yogurt.

I’ve got a formula, encompassing Chobani and a skyr not to be named, it’s hard enough to find as it is. As a matter of fact, I bought in excess of twenty when I went to Gelson’s last Saturday. But they had no Chobani, never mind blueberries. Is there another blueberry shortage? There was one a couple of years back.

So instead of driving home I went to Ralphs.

But I’ve got to ask you, how long can refrigerated items sit in your car, especially during the summer? I was contemplating this, but then I remembered Ralphs’s parking is in a covered garage, so I drove further away from home and they were overloaded with Chobani coffee, I ended up buying sixteen. And they had blueberries too!

But I won’t buy VitaminWater Zero there, it’s too much of a rip-off. Funny how I’ll spend so much money on a restaurant meal and then haggle over a few dollars, but I hate being ripped-off, it’s an insult. I’ll pay full price for what I want, but don’t f*ck me in the ass.

So I calculated my Vitarain Zero stock and my coming obligations and realized today was the day, I had to go to Costco.

Now I thought of getting gas there. Aren’t the prices dropping? But the cars were stacked six or seven deep, it wasn’t worth the wait.

But I went into the store and…

I told myself only to buy that which I needed, to not dilly-dally, but I had to look at the TVs.

They’re selling an 83″ Samsung OLED for $3999. EIGHTY THREE INCHES! And you wonder why people don’t want to go to the movie theatre.

And I found my Vitarain Zero and couldn’t resist the chopped fruit, it’s summer after all, and then, lo and behold, they had Grillo’s pickles! So I bought a bucket of them.

And then it was off to the poke. They make this sriracha ahi… And it’s very hot. In reality, I should not be eating it, I pay the price afterward, but it’s so damn good! It’s rare that you can find store bought stuff with enough heat.

And they had a salmon mango ceviche too…

And a spicy tuna ahi salad…

But how much fresh fish could I buy?

I contemplated this question and then decided on just the sriracha ahi and the salmon mango ceviche and then…

After sampling a few things that did not float my boat, I had to strategize my exit.

Like I said, I refuse to use self-checkout. If for no other reason than the other people tend to get flummoxed and not be so fast.

So…

I’ve analyzed the checkout at this store. And my plan is to go to the lane closest to the entrance. You see most people tour the store in a U, and end up on the opposite side. But I’ve had good luck going back crosstown in the store and using the far left lane.

And I’m racing a guy with liquor. Did you know you don’t need to be a member to buy liquor in a California Costco?

And when I get to the registers, each one has four people ahead of me.

Oh well…

I decide I’m going to time my exit. It’s 12:27. How long is it going to take me?

Turns out Costco has in-store wifi, so I fire that up and am just starting to peruse Instagram Reels when a woman comes up to me with a handheld scanner. What’s up? I’m way back in line.

She asks me for my membership card.

I guess they’re rooting out fraud.

But then she starts scanning all the items in my cart. What exactly is going on? Why is she doing this?

And then she walks away, to do the same in the next line over.

So I leave my basket and go over to her and ask what is going on.

She said just to show my Costco card at checkout.

Huh?

Yup, she already scanned all my items, they were in the system, and when the clerk scanned my membership card the bill would come right up and I could pay, no extra scanning necessary.

Now I was confused when the clerk scanned my card and then started checking out the items in my cart. So I asked him why he was doing this. He was counting the merchandise, to make sure there was no stealing involved.

And then I scanned my ATM card, got ahold of my cart and checked my phone.

It was 12:29!!!! I’d been checked out in two minutes!

And now I’m starting to smile, feeling so good. Like I’ll come back more often on smaller runs.

But what I really felt good about was Costco. They were doing every little thing to enhance the consumer experience.

At Ralphs, it was like the clerk was stoned. Going through the motions, seemingly wanting to be anywhere but there.

It was like she was encased in molasses while she was bagging my stuff. There was no separate bagger, that would cost too much!

But at Costco? They know me and want to keep me as a customer. They just don’t see it as a store, but a religion. I believe in Costco like I used to believe in bands, because they’re not doing it the same way as everybody else, they’re not resting on their laurels, they’re constantly innovating.

And when I get to my car…

Those flats of Vitarain Zero are heavy, so I want to get as close to my machine as possible.

However, not too close. I remember my 2002 getting a scratch in the door from an errant grocery cart, it always bugged me.

And the cart looked steady, but just when I was done loading my car, I saw it resting against the rear bumper.

Oh no… The bumper is plastic, but still…

So I leaned in close to investigate.

Turns out the Costco carts have rubber bumpers, for this express reason, so they don’t damage your automobile!

Now maybe they have these bumpers at other grocery stores, but I’ve never encountered them.

So this is where we are today. We’re enamored of brands more than people. Because they understand the relationship is everything.

Apple… You pay a fortune, but it looks good and it just works. And you have recourse if it doesn’t, you can call or go to an Apple store.

Of course there are Android fanatics, but I read in today’s “Wall Street Journal” that the iPhone has more than 60% market share in the U.S., and it’s the most expensive handset, except for a few rivals. And Apple has four of the five best selling smartphones worldwide, and over sixty percent of the profits.

We’ve got a relationship with Apple. You may not, but many do. And when we see that dreaded green bubble, we wonder why that user didn’t get the memo.

Costco doesn’t complain.

That’s what today’s entertainers are doing constantly, complaining. About not making enough money, getting ripped-off, getting dissed. But Costco is above it all, just preaching to the choir, its choir, which is not everybody, but a hell of a lot of people.

Costco is thinking about ME!

As for Apple and its prices… No one is forcing you to buy an iPhone, and none of them are cheap. Where else do we see this? With concert tickets! But in that sphere the acts won’t own the value of a ticket to their show, there’s endless finger-pointing, someone is at fault. But the bottom line is people are lining up to pay, they’re dying to go to the show and they’re willing to pay for it!

But all we’ve got is ill will.

Ain’t that America, someone is at fault, someone is holding you back, ripping you off.

But not at Costco.

Too bad he missed his crowning achievement. Which is the endless obituaries in today’s news media trumpeting him and his efforts.

This is what Clive Davis wanted. Acknowledgement and immortality. And to achieve that, he was on an endless quest of personal myth-making.

I’m not saying the guy was without talent. He could certainly pick a Top 40 hit. And he did sign all those acts coming out of the Monterey Pop Festival. But if you look closely at his career you’ll find an endless slew of evanescent acts singing meaningless songs. They might have had commercial success once upon a time, but they’ve got no legs.

Now let’s be clear, Clive Davis was the first well-known executive of the rock and roll era. Before that… It was old men in suits, possibly chomping cigars, but they were ultimately faceless to those outside the business.

And then Clive Davis got fired.

Now starting a few years before this, the nascent rock press started to mention his name. Fans wanted to know who was responsible for their music, and Columbia Records was the biggest label in the land.

With Warner/Reprise coming up close.

But Mo Ostin had a different philosophy. Sure, he started off with momentary hits, but soon transitioned to career artists, who he took a hands-off policy towards. Whereas Clive famously meddled. He thought he knew more than the acts. Despite making his bones in the album rock world, he was really a throwback to the pre-Beatle, Tin Pan Alley era.

If you’re in the know, the two greatest record executives of the modern era are Mo and Ahmet Ertegun. Although I can hear Joe Smith yelling at me from his grave. Joe was pissed that he never received enough recognition, he mentioned this every time we spoke. But Joe seems to have been forgotten to the sands of time, even though he was the one who signed the Grateful Dead and did so much more. Mo? There’s a book about him that was released to crickets, but if you weren’t alive during that era…you probably never knew who he was, never mind forgotten him. As for Ahmet? He was the true music man of the bunch. He had roots in jazz and R& B. His Atlantic Records famously screwed the original fifties acts that built the label, but he did sign and break them, he pushed the envelope when Mitch Miller was still doing A&R at CBS. Ahmet not only had an ear, he was cultured and dignified, and when Ahmet told you a story… It was frequently out of your league, concerning a legendary club owner in Paris, but he included you, he did not act as if he was above you.

Then again, the funny thing about Clive is that despite his image, those pictures you saw everywhere, he was not imposing in real life. He could have airs if you were not introduced, but he could also be intimate and friendly, yet he never stopped promoting himself, it was the opposite of Ahmet, Clive was always trying to convince you how great he was. And the somnambulant press bought it, but if you were in the business…

Now not only did Clive get fired from CBS Records, he wrote a book about his career there. 1974’s “Clive: Inside the Record Business” was very different from the man’s 2013 tome, “The Soundtrack of My Life.” The latter was a victory lap, it was unreadable hagiography. “I did this and then I did that and aren’t I great!” Well, the true greats don’t have to tell us they are. That’s one thing that you realize when you reach the top echelon of any business, including the music business. Those at the top have nothing to prove, they do not brag, they’re oftentimes more friendly than those who work beneath them. If you can gain access, you’ll be wowed.

But not Clive. And Clive did not play well with others. The music business is a club, a veritable high school, everybody knows everybody and your reputation is king. There’s constant fraternizing, relationships are everything, but Clive was an outsider. His relationships were external, primarily with the press, and he had crack promotion men like Donnie Ienner and Richard Palmese to deal with radio. But really, Clive existed in his own backwater. He’d come up in conversation, but people in the business believed he lived in his own purgatory. Everybody else had drunk the kool-aid, music was the hottest medium, driving the culture… Clive was all about commercialization. It had to sell and it had to sell soon. And if it didn’t sell, he would make you change it going forward, or wouldn’t let you make any more records at all. Clive was the least artist friendly executive in the business. Once word got out, career artists refused to sign with him. He was known for interfering with the artistic process and killing careers, as he did with Hall & Oates. But before that…

Clive got back into the business with Columbia Pictures’ Bell Records, transforming it into Arista, and one of his first releases was that of legendary downtown poet, Patti Smith. This was credibility on steroids. This is what we expected after the book.

But it didn’t stay this way for long.

Let’s see… Arista’s greatest hits… As the seventies wore on, Clive kept a foot in rock, with the Outlaws and the Alan Parsons Project, but filled the company’s coffers with the work of Barry Manilow.

But the rock focus quickly faded. Rock was a slog. It required FM airplay and the building of a fan base on the road and you never knew if, never mind when, you would reach critical mass. Whereas if you started with the hit…

In the seventies all the action was on FM radio, where the career artists lived. But by the turn of the decade, Clive decided to focus on the derided AM dial, where catchy, mindless ditties and drivel dominated. It was easy pickings for Clive. And then he succeeded with Air Supply and Tayor Dayne and he even branched into soft jazz with Kenny G. Let’s be clear, there was a ton of money generated by these acts, but they were derided in their day and if they’re remembered at all, they’re still laughed at.

But then something funny happened. The market changed in Clive’s favor. MTV came on the scene and suddenly it was Top 40 on steroids. Sure, at first it was about the old rock acts crossing over. But soon it became about ditties that would play around the world. Just what Clive specialized in. This wasn’t the slow growth of Warner/Reprise, this was throw it against the wall and make sure it sticks. Massage the music and the image, trumpet it to the press, make a slick video and…

The apotheosis was Whitney Houston, who was everything traditional rockers stood against. She didn’t write the songs, which sounded unlike the stuff on FM, the only rock and roll thing she ended up doing was marrying Bobby Brown and taking drugs.

But it was the eighties. Sunny and hedonistic, image became more important than soul, and Clive’s acts were perfect for the era.

Ultimately we got Milli Vanilli, who weren’t even an act to begin with. Talk about a lack of credibility…

And Ace of Base wasn’t much better.

Yes, Clive did bring Santana back with duets… But “Supernatural”  goes mostly unplayed these days, whereas the initial Santana work on Columbia is legendary, a north star in its fusion of rock and Latin rhythms. Clive could make you commercial, make you some money, but in most cases he was unable to build your career, never mind embellish it.

Yes, he had a disposable hit with the Dead’s “Touch of Grey,” but people forget that the Grateful Dead signed with Arista back in the mid-seventies, just after the label was formed, after their disastrous experience with their own record company. Would the Dead have signed with Arista in the eighties? I wouldn’t think so. But Clive did deliver a hit, with a video to boot, but did it make new hard core Dead fans? I doubt it.

Got to give Clive credit for going into business with Puffy’s Bad Boy Records… Then again, even at that early date Puffy had a checkered legal past.

And then there was the pushing aside of Clive at Arista for L.A. Reid and the establishment of J and then the reunification of the two labels, but the dirty little secret was…

Clive was a bad businessman. As in when it came to the bottom line… A lot was spent and not a lot was left.

Now eventually Clive aged and ran out of gas and focused upon his Grammy party. He was really into it, laboring over the seating chart, and if you were up close and personal, on the inside, it was almost sad. Clive was hanging on by a thread, he needed this party to show that he still mattered.

So why am I bothering to piss on Clive Davis, especially upon his death?

BECAUSE HE WAS THE ANTITHESIS OF EVERYTHING I LOVE ABOUT THE MUSIC AND THIS BUSINESS!

The Beatles broke and then it was about albums, statements, our acts were gurus who we followed more than politicians, movie stars, ANYBODY! And then Clive is purveying this meaningless commercial crap, contributing to the downfall of the edifice that threw off so much money that Warner/Reprise paid for the Warner cable system. More money was made from records than movies. Which is why conglomerates picked up all these companies.

And let’s be clear, the executives were well paid. But other than Clive, no one mistook themselves for the artist. It was clear who created the music, who was in control, but not with Clive, he thought he was the act, that he knew better!

And now we have songs written by committee fronted by airheads with no backbone who will do anything to make a dollar, who are categorically unable to say no.

But are any of Clive’s acts playing the Sphere?

Well, Dead & Company if you want to stretch it, but my point is do Arista acts have such rabid fan bases that they can sell out arenas at multi-hundred dollar ticket prices?

NO!

There’s really no there there. When back in the so-called day, EVERYTHING WAS THERE! These acts were our lifeblood. They made so much money that they could blow it destroying hotel rooms and carry on, knowing there was much more where that came from. They lived outside the system, they commented on the system, they were beacons imploring their audiences to think, to question authority. Clive’s acts? They were like the Scarecrow in “The Wizard of Oz.”

Clive is not much different from Sumner Redstone, who convinced himself he would not die. But he did. And then Viacom went into the toilet and his name has been scrubbed from the public consciousness, if not history. As for Clive… It’s double zeros. Not only will he not be remembered by future generations, the acts he signed and promoted won’t be either. There’s no legacy!

But this guy snookered the press into believing his hype.

The best artists let their music speak for themselves.

And the best executives let their artists speak for them.

But Clive Davis was all about speaking endlessly for himself, tooting his own horn.

You won’t read the above in the hosannas in the obituaries, but those on the inside know. And those on the outside too, because the acts Clive promoted were ultimately hollow. The exec should sign and promote, they should not meddle in the music itself.

And other than Jimmy Iovine, nobody has self-promoted like Clive since. Doug Morris got a lot of publicity, became too big for his britches, was fired by Bob Morgado and became press shy thereafter, while building the world’s biggest recorded music company, Universal Music. And Lucian Grainge has only grown the company, engineering the Capitol merger, and as a result of his perch and his power he’s in the news, but we don’t see endless puff pieces, Lucian is not on an endless press tour promoting himself.

This business is not what it was. There have been a lot of changes, first FM radio, then MTV and the CD and then the internet. It’s so far from the garden it’s disillusioning. And the first thing wannabes want to talk about is money. And everybody’s bitching they’re not more successful.

What they want is Clive Davis to put them up front and center, to promote them to the world.

But are they worth it?

In most cases not. Never mind that today labels seem unable to break an act.

The story of today is the Balkanization of music, and live… You don’t see Michael Rapino touting himself, and he’s even more powerful than Lucian, he’s promoting multiple genres, he’s the one who is paying the acts.

There was not enough love in the world for Clive Davis. The boy from Brooklyn was always trying to convince us he was worthy. Only someone extremely insecure would need to promote himself to this degree.

Clive signed some good acts, especially in his CBS days. He knew what was a hit, and he could promote a worthy record to success.

But he was not the only one who could do this.

And when it comes to lasting records, others did it so much better.

In the long run, Clive Davis does not matter. But a bunch of the acts still do. And almost all of them were not on Arista.

I’m amazed but not surprised to see you talking about Grillos pickles! I met Travis Grillo back in 2008 when he first started selling pickle spears (two spears for $1) in downtown Boston. Working first from his car, and then setting up a pickle cart, he used his family’s recipe that was simply amazing. I worked for a company that did printing and we printed some of his earliest labels. Great Guy. I cheered every time his pickles were picked up by a new grocery store chain and I was surprised the first time I found his west of the Mississippi. He’s worked long and hard and it is nice to see his achieve the rewards and recognition he’s earned!!
—
Keith Spiro

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Howdy, Bob!

Grillos Pickles are the best I’ve been able to buy in a regular store.

They’ve had them here at the Publix in Nashville for a good while and I’ve been lucky to be able to have them for the last few years.

Their “Italian version” are even worth eating (!)

Admittedly, the stock level is sporadic, and they are in chip form for the most part, but every once in a while, I can get the spears (I grew up in Chicago, so a pickle spear with a sandwich, pretty much any sandwich, felt like law, and I obeyed!), which really makes me happy.

Anyway, I’ve been a “Grillos evangelist” for a good long while and consider their offerings top-flight; I’m glad you’ve found them and get to enjoy them as well!

Cheers!

King Williams

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Grillos has a marketing arrangement with the Boston Bruins. They’ll display their fun logo on the boards and on the ice in the neutral zone.  They also sponsor a segment of the Bruins pre-game show, called “Cool as a Cucumber”.  Griilos also sells a hockey jersey…

Grillo's Hockey Jersey

Delicious pickles…the best.  And easy to come by here in the Boston area.  Most grocery stories sell them.

Jeff Hansen

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Happy you discovered them! They really are the best! Found them a few years ago at BeachLife Festival in Redondo where they had an activation complete with a dude in a pickle mascot outfit waving people over. Figured it was a little cheesy, but it worked! My wife insisted on going over and taking a picture with him and I tasted the pickles and was blown away by the flavor! Costco out in Westlake seems to always have them, by the way.

Danny Cooper

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My fave pickles are from Katz’ in NYC. I have yet to find anything similar in Toronto 🙁

Karen Bliss

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Good choice Bob. Been buying Grillo’s Pickles by the bucketful @ Costco for quite some time. Actually was running low on my last bucket, and have a new one ready to open in the fridge when those are done. Best store bought pickles I’ve ever had. Even the Goyim are hip to Grillo’s.

-Rick Marino

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I’m a sucker for packaging. They have great merch. I got turned on to them here in Chicago while watching a baseball game on TV. They had the advertising behind home plate. A pickle in a lawn chair wearing flip flops, I had to try them. They are now they are my go-to store bought pickle. Kudos to whoever handles the marketing aesthetic.

Jason Cienkus
Chicago Suburbs

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I love Grillo’s! My whole extended family was raised devouring mass quantities of pickles. My current favorite though is a Philly local, Dietz & Watson. Amazing stuff

Gary Ferenchak

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Those pickles are the best!! We’ve been buying them for a few years now.  It’s one of the few teams I don’t get annoyed at regarding price at the grocery store. The first time my wife bought them and I saw they were like $9 for the small container I got so mad but then I tried them and was hooked. They’re usually stocked in the local Stop ‘n Shop here on Long Island but it’s weird – there are times when you just can’t find them for a few weeks and we have to settle for the jarred crap haha. Great find!

Rob DiFondi

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I love when you write this kinda sh*t. Amazing how many words you wrote about grillos. That being said they are incredible. You can a big pail at Costco. We get em all the time.

Stevie Rees / Arbo

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Bob –

Grillo’s also makes a great pickle based “Salsa”.  It’s a great condiment to keep on hand!

-Steve Duchardt

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Truly the best commercially available dill pickle spear available to purchase today.

Will never match the long gone and lamented Clairmont Diner (Verona,NJ) complimentary assorted pickle bowl ( with pickled tomatoes) sitting on every table as you sat down or the one of kind Clairmont Salad (Kind of vinegar based Cole Slaw with a hint of sweetness) that all whoever tasted still pines for.  Ask Jon Scher.

Bert Holman

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I can’t believe you love these too. We’re obsessed with Grillos pickles. Respect.

Mindi Abair

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And if you’re lucky they occasionally have the Grillo’s Half Sours…so damn good!

Aloha
Steve London

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They are unmatched. 100!

Pink Needs

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My wife is addicted to them. There is never a time when they are not in our fridge. I dig em but she’s on another planet.

Dan Millen

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Hey Bob,

One LA pickle lover to another…you gotta try The Crazy Cucumber. Artisan pickle monger often shows up at the Malibu Farmer’s Market, Sundays 10am-3pm I believe. Also at others. Great quality, tons of interesting varieties…and sauerkraut that’s fantastic. Cool guy who loves talking about his products. Worth the journey up PCH.

Best,

Larry Laffer

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Half Sour? Can’t find them in Cadillac, MI to save my life!!

Paul Bizzigotti

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Okay, I’ll reluctantly try Grillo’s. A friend mentioned they’re great too. But I’m camp Bubbies which is essentially the pickle I grew up eating in Canada formerly known as Strub’s pickles.

Best,
Ellie Shapiro

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bob you gotta check out grillo’s instagram. they have some of the best marketing going right now.

also their pickle salsa is awesome

Tom Gilbert

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You have to try the grillo pickle de gallo. Put it on a bratwurst or anything else for that matter.

Ryan Nagle
CAA | Touring

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Keep an eye out for their ‘Pickle de Gallo’

It’s special

-jl

Best regards,

Jonathan Lerner

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Grillo’s Pickles are awesome, and readily available here on the East Coast. I really like all the dill, or whatever that vegetation is that comes with them. But the containers need serious improvement; they’re guaranteed to spill pickle juice all over the place and need to be opened in the sink.

Rich Madow

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I am a huge pickle fan and have two buckets of Grillo pickles in my refrigerator in Kerrville, Texas. The best…

Steven McClintock
37 Records

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Back in the late 70’s, my folks bought a bungalow colony in White Lake, NY, about two miles down the road from what was still Yasgur’s farm.  It was the waning days of the Borscht Belt Catskills and gambling was rumored to be imminent, after Atlantic City had approved it recently. They got a great deal on the place, 90 acres, 60 cottages rented by NYC Jewish families for the summer. They thought it would be fun, and they’d flip it within five years. Of course gambling didn’t happen for another 30 years.

I met a girl from Brooklyn there. Her parents were teachers, and in the summer they were hustlers. All sorts of side businesses, primarily running flea market booths at the Kiamesha Lanes bowling alley parking lot on Sundays. They had a pickles and dried fruits and nuts stand, and I manned the both with my girlfriend in the summer of ’80. We had barrels of pickles made by Shimmy the Pickle King. Grillo is probably a more palatable pickle-maker for the gentiles than Shimmy, but they were great pickles.

I still prefer them as sour and garlicky as possible, not a fan of dills and half-sours.

Every whole pickle I’ll ever bite into will bring me back to the 18-year-old kid spending his last summer before college slinging pickles to the summering Jews of Sullivan County.

Dave Arbiter
Margaritaville
Daytona Beach, FL

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If you are also a fan of half sours, do yourself a favor and try Ba-Tampte…look for a glass jar found in the refrigerated section.  (How these weren’t included in the Wirecutter review is beyond me!)

I first encountered these in college at Drexel in Philly, while working as a waiter at Ted’s Montana Grill.  We would drop them on the table while customers looked over the menu…the restaurant may have lost money on the days I worked a double!

In PA, I’m usually able to find them with relative ease at our local Wegmans or Acme.  However, periodically they are out of stock for whatever reason, which can really throw a wrench in your lunch sandwich plans!

These are hands down my favorite pickles, you just have to make sure they are bright green in the jar, occasionally they will look a darker green and/or yellow, with cloudier brine, which means they won’t taste right and are on the mushier side, sometimes due to the lid losing its seal.

Enjoy!

Jon-Michael Marino

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Glad you found the pickles Bob. I live in SW France now and you can’t find dill pickles anywhere here only cornichons which the French eat with pate, etc. They are more like bread and butter pickles than dill. When I lived in Ireland I could get very good dills at the Polish stores which were everywhere because of the large population of Polish immigrants. Your email brought back a few memories also. I used to live in Grand Junction in western Colorado and shopped at City Market!! Hadn’t thought about them for a long time. Also, took a look at the Wirecutter link and the dill pickles that I bought in the states were also recommended…. Bubbies. I loved those and might be worth trying if you can’t find Grillos. Enjoy your posts and a lot of times makes me glad to be living outside the US! All the best Bob

Tom Ryall

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Hey Bob. Pickles are definitely having a moment right now. The kids would say we are Picklemaxxing. But I’m a big fan of Grillo‘s, as well. You should try to get your hands on some Grillo‘s Pickled Grapes. I know it sounds weird – but they are absolutely delicious— the perfect combo of sweet and sour. Meanwhile – I happen to think the best pickles in Los Angeles are from Kaylin & Kaylin at the Original Farmers Market at 3rd & Fairfax.

Trey Callaway

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Less than two weeks ago my wife was in Whole Foods looking for my regular brand of dills.  They were out so she picked up a jar of Grillo’s, which she had read about in one of her many cooking magazines.    WOW!  I’m never going back to Vlasek. Fermented foods are among the most ancient, so somebody knows something.  Thanks!

dennis brent

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Have you tried Batempte Half Sours in Refrigerator section of Gelsons?
They’re my favorite.
Unfortunately, nothing resembling 5 cent ones from the barrel of Sol’s Deli on 20th street and 1st Avenue…

Bob Goodman

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I live in Iowa and get Grillos at Hy-Vee.  They are grossly under appreciated here.  Seeing Grillos and Paquito Mas referenced in the same email is the ultimate PSA!  Thank you for your service!!!

David Bernstein

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Bob- I love you so I take great regret in bursting your bubble. Grillo’s pickles aren’t fermented. It says so on their own website under the FAQ:

Do Grillo’s pickles need to be refrigerated?

Since Grillo’s products are a completely fresh pickle made without chemicals or preservatives, they are not fermented. This means they need to be kept at refrigerated temperatures to ensure both quality and freshness are maintained.

You found the clue about needing refrigeration, you just didn’t put it together. There are 2 ways to make pickles, one using vinegar (which is what Grillo’s does) and one using fermentation with a brand like Bubbies. (Not recommending them, they were just Wirecutter’s pick further down the page for a “Tart & Juicy” option)

You can tell if a pickle is fermented because it will be a cloudy jar and it won’t have vinegar in its ingredients. I learned all this from a trip to the Pickle Guys on Grand Street on the Lower East Side, which you should definitely visit the next time you are in New York because they have dozens of jars of fermenting foods.

I don’t have an affiliation with any of the above brands, but I do have access to grocery sales data as a food exec and can tell you the yogurt category has been absolutely exploding (up 18% Year over Year, which is insane growth for a mature category) because of consumer interest in high probiotics (fermentation’s main benefit) coupled with protein. Real yogurt like Nancy’s or Stonyfield (skip Dannon & Yoplait) have decent probiotic counts in the low billions. If you want high probiotics in the tens of billions (the main reward of fermented foods) go for Kefir. (which is drinkable) For a new breed of super-high probiotic spoonable options in the hundreds of billions like Coconut Cult or Kefirkult, head to Whole Foods. (Both use coconut milk, which is high in saturated fat, so it’s not for everyone)

Skip the sugary flavors if you can, go for the original varieties and add your own fruit.

Best of luck!

Greg Lorenzo

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I’m taking a $10 risk on your taste (amazon fresh delivery). It’s impossible to find good pickles in the OC. We are losing another Gelson’s and they were the only ones left selling B’Tempte. (sp?). Luckily, father’s day means a trip to LA and Brents. Their new pickles are to die for but the half sour haven’t been the same since the pandemic. If you’re right, I owe you.

Bruce Greenberg

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So Grillos ran a hugely successful marketing campaign last year on Instagram and it blew up. Almost all zoomers love Grillos.

Now they have a whole new line of Grillos beets and onions and carrots and grapes.

It literally became the brand seemingly overnight with youth.

Johnny Lloyd Rollins

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Hi Bob — I have a tip.

I order full sour pickles from Katz’s in New York.  If the order is more than $100 shipping is free (it was last time I ordered).

The full sour are the best.  Puts all others to shame.

Jim Charne

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I love Grillo’s.  They are the best. (And I get mine at Ralph’s; they always have them). But…

…. they’re not fermented.

Matthew Mars

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Grillo’s are not fermented so you are not maximizing the nutritional value. Bubbie’s are fermented and widely available in different varieties.

Geoffrey Cushing-Murray

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Grillo’s is delicious, but they are not technically fermented. They are just ‘pickled’.

Fermented pickles have active cultures… like the brand Bubbies – or more famously The Pickle Guys (the successor of “Guss’ Pickles” from Crossing Delancey) on Essex & Grand in NYC. They sell a handful of fermented pickles (and some are simply pickled), but all are delicious.

Michael Closter

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I’m generally a Bubbie’s guy, both the whole dill pickles and their sweet & sour chips.  I will check out Grillo’s.  When I was a kid, there was nothing better than a pickle barrel in the store where you fished out your own pickle – Zabar’s of course, but also there was a shop in Rockport on one main drag.  Paired with a tuna sandwich on rye, nothing better.

Toby Mamis

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Grillo’s is good! Bubbies is the best!!

Burt Stein

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Bubbie’s kosher dills or Bubbie’s spicy kosher dills. The only choice!!!

Rhonda Bedikan

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This is my area of expertise, including going to Gus’s back in the day (the inspiration for Crossing Del).

 

This is the closest you can get from a store (online too).

 

IPO and Peace are the best.

 

https://brittsfermentedfoods.com/collections/all

Dave Pell

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I LOVE your quest for the perfect pickle. I have been there and done that. I would go to Disneyland, which is not my favorite place in the whole wide world, just to go to Main Street to buy a couple of pickles from the huge jar. If people are going to Disneyland, they ask if I want a pair of Mickey’s ears. Hell no.

Could you please pick up several pickles on Main Street? Here’s my dealbreaker. They have to be old/classic pickles, NOT the raw cucumber style. Who was the Impatient person that couldn’t wait? You have to learn to pace your pickles. I keep the empty jars with the brine. If you get into a pickle and run out, you should always buy some picking cucumbers, cut them into spears, and make your own. PLUS pickle juice takes the pain away from a sore throat. It’s a staple in my refrigerator. I can only imagine your panic when you ran out. Are they classic/old/patient/ or new cucumbers?

Now I crave deli food, but it’s too late in the evening. I’ll go make some Matzo Brei. My go-to when I am too tired to cook! Tossed or pancake style? Eaten with sugar or salt?

Maldon Flakes for me. Perhaps with a side of pickle.

Jill Harris

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Ralph’s impulse purchase day before yesterday…perfect on a Hebrew National;  and then I read WSJ fermented article!

We on the same page Bob.

Tony Yoken
Los Angeles/Memphis

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ok just went to amazon and saw ’em…
one jar is in my cart!

Hong Son

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Drink the brine. Trust me. I’m Polish.

Better hydration than Gatorade as it has the salt you actually need.

Grillo’s half sour are my go to as a thoroughbred Pole. Whole Foods always has them.

Pickles for the win,

Lee Guzofski

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1,436 words about pickles and I read ever single one. And my mouth is also watering. Grillo’s pickles are amazing.

I love this. Thanks for sharing.

I don’t think I’ve ever actually shot off a reply to you, but I’ve started writing many. I get a few paragraphs in, feel better about whatever riled me up, and said “eh, nobody gives a sh*t about what I think. Delete.” But here I am actually hitting send about pickles. Thanks for your newsletter. You’re a bright light.

Stephanie O’Donnell
Former country record rep, now a realtor. Ha.

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Hey Bob.

Got a kick out of your Pickle Piece.

I know that you’re a Wirecutter fan (as am I), so you may have seen this article.

Our next door neighbor is a NYT food writer and she wrote this piece on Sardines.

I used to eat a lot of Sardines with my Dad and brother back in the 60s!  We’d eat ‘em with saltine crackers and mustard while watching football games.  An acquired taste, no doubt!

Anyway, I mentioned this to Kathy (that’s her byline below) after I’d read her article.  So she left a tin of one of the top ranking Sardines at our door.

It was the brand called Donostina.  Lord have mercy.  These things were amazing!!!  Only 4 in the can…like fillets.

I haven’t seen them around here in NYC, but if I do, I’ll snag more for sure.

For some reason, you strike me as somebody who might like Sardines.  If so, keep your eyes peeled when you’re cruising the high end stores out there (cruising high end grocery stores, btw, is something I LOVE to do).

Killer!

Hugh Surratt

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-sardines/

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From: Tom Russo

Hey Bob. Grillo’s was just featured in the Costco Connection this month.:

SUPPLIER SPOTLIGHT

Fresh favorite

How Grillo’s Pickles grew from a Boston food cart to a briny behemoth 

by GEOFF NUDELMAN

Grillo’s Pickles CEO and Costco member Adam Kaufman is quick to point out that the pickle brand doesn’t take itself too seriously, even as it has experienced serious growth over the last decade. 

“We had a groundswell of support from when we started with a cart in Boston Common,” says Kaufman, who has been with the company since 2018. “The aspirational side of our brand is neat. We’re a different pickle.”

The Grillo’s products available today are made with the same recipe co-founder Travis Grillo adapted from his grandfather’s pickles and began selling out of his car in 2008. The pickles were a hit and he moved to a wooden pickle cart in 2009. 

The brand had customers buzzing. “There was pickle merch for sale, friends skateboarding around and the occasional pickle suit appearance while hustling pickles on the street,” says Grillo’s co-founder and vice president of brand Eddie Andre. “(This all) created an energetic brand that was more than just a pickle out of a cart.” 

Later, two employees of a large national grocer came down to the cart and tried the pickles for themselves, which led to a larger audience. “After a few years of dedicated hustle, we were accepted in several of the store’s regions, and nationally by 2016,” says Andre. 

According to Andre, part of that growth has come from how Grillo’s has maintained its roots in punk rock and skate culture, even as it arrived as a national brand.

The company does a pop-up each year in New York City where it sells limited-edition items, such as pickled grapes, and maintains an irreverent and quirky social media presence that’s as much a pickle 

fan account as it is brand promotion.

“I feel lucky to be around the brand,” Kaufman says. “Over the last three years, the whole pickle market has just exploded.”