Uh-Oh

The live business is imploding.

Common wisdom is it has to do with price, but it appears that the cancer of
the major labels is starting to impact gigs.  You see, nobody wants to see the
ACTS!

But it’s more than that.  The heritage acts, the ones that have supported the
business for years, nobody wants to see them either.

Make no mistake, people want to see Celine Dion, the Eagles, and even Kenny
Chesney, at almost ANY PRICE!  And Green Day might not be charging much, but
they could and still sell out.  But when you dig deeper…

Let’s start with the Zooma Tour.  My initial reaction was it was cancelled
due to Trey Anastasio’s overinflated sense of self, thinking that he meant as
much solo as he did with Phish.  And I do believe that’s an element, that people
were buying culture along with Phish’s music and there’s no culture with
Trey.  But then I checked the grosses.  In theatres, LARGE theatres, Trey sells
out.  The Fox in Atlanta, the Auditorium in Chicago…  Could it be less of a
factor of not enough fans and more of an issue of Trey’s fans NO LONGER WANT TO
GO TO THE BIG SHOW AND SIT MILES FROM THE STAGE??

Yes, hate to break it to you, but Phish fans are in the neighborhood of
thirty now.  And when you hit that age you start to have money.  And you no longer
want to rough it, no longer want to commune with your buds.  Rather, you’d
prefer to drive your near-luxury automobile and pay a bit extra for convenience.

But it gets worse.  Who ARE the acts these thirtysomethings want to see in
mass quantities??  Who ARE the acts that have been working for ten years that
hit this demographic that can draw like the baby boomer superstars and the
fortysomething U2?  Shit, I’m scratching my head, I can’t think of ANY!

Then let’s get to the new acts.  That tour with the rappers?  The one with
SNOOP DOGG!  The teflon-coated, always in the press superstar?  Rappers don’t do
well in concert.  This show ain’t no guaranteed sell-out, FAR FROM IT!

But it’s not only rappers…  Look at Maroon 5.  Clive’s darlings have sold
out a number of 10,000 seat arenas.  But they only did 75% business in St.
Louis.  Maybe an anomaly, but the real question is, WILL ANYBODY WANT TO SEE THEM FIVE YEARS FROM NOW??

Then there’s the other end of the spectrum.  The tour with Joe Jackson and
Todd Rundgren.  I just heard Joe on XM last night.  A true talent.  I used to
see him ALL THE TIME in the seventies and eighties.  Todd…he’s God in my book.
 But not in too many other people’s books.  Oh, the show sold out in New York
City.  But is doing half capacity, barely over 1,000 people elsewhere. 
Bottom line?  The baby boomers are done.  That’s it.  Kaput.  They’ve become their
parents.  There IS a hard core who will support the old acts, who will come
out, who are fans.  But the majority of baby boomers see live music as
spectacle, they only want to go to the big shows, the ones that cost over a hundred dollars a ticket.  Otherwise, they’d rather stay home and watch a DVD.  Or go out
to dinner and purchase a hundred dollar bottle of wine.  That’s right, the
demo is OVER!

At least the baby boomers lived through the heyday.  When music drove the
culture.  The generation after them lived through the advent of MTV, but if
Culture Club reformed and went on tour today, how many fortysomethings would CARE?? Yup, as this generation, the true Generation X, ages, THEY’RE only gonna
want to see the big acts, and WHO ARE THEY?

The younger generation…  They think that music is something you dance to,
in a club.  Just watch MTV for instruction, that’s the key activity on all the
reality shows, dancing and drinking and flirting.  Music is NOT a key element.
 It’s just the grease, at most.

You can’t steal a live performance, you can’t download it off the net.  And
no matter how fine you make the theatres, it all comes down to the acts.  And
major labels haven’t been making acts you want to see, want to BELIEVE IN, for
a LONG TIME!  The Good Charlotte and Simple Plan tour can’t sell out six
thousand seaters.  Hell, in some places it can’t sell out THREE THOUSAND SEATERS! 
And the vaunted radio shows, the ones stacked with "stars", the shows everybody thought were cannibalizing their business, people aren’t clamoring to go to
those EITHER!  Gwen Stefani, Kelly Clarkson, Ryan Cabrera, all the fresh faces
the media tells us RULE culture…it’s just a hype, they, along with the
aforementioned Simple Plan and others, could only pull 10,000 people, fifty
percent capacity, at the 93.3 show at Coors Amphitheatre in Chula Vista.  Yup, hate
to tell you, the public just doesn’t care.  At least not in the numbers that
the hype machine tells us they do.

The problem isn’t that there’s competition for the entertainment dollar, the
problem is this competition is BETTER!  Playing video games, watching a DVD in
your home theatre, SURFING THE NET AND IM’ING!  They’re MUCH more enjoyable
than the live SHOW!  And, until new acts, that drive the culture, are built,
expect business to continue to be soft.

33 Responses to Uh-Oh »»


Comments

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  1. Comment by Scott Perry | 2005/06/02 at 20:00:19

    I’d say the only bands worth seeing on a consistent basis are the ones the
    indie kids are into. I’m not armed with any empirical data, but the bands that
    resonate with their fans, make good music, and deliver a good live show will
    always do well. Maybe not stadium filling blockbuster numbers, but at least
    good enough numbers now that may continue to grow into Wilco-sized numbers
    (multi-theatre dates, but def not big shed / arena / stadium size:

    Decemberists, Bloc Party, Spoon, Sleater-Kinney, Arcade Fire, Pixies, Nails
    (can do bigger), Queens, Mars Volta, Stripes, Dears, plus rising alt/metal/emo
    bands (too many to list, but I guess they’re the domain of club shows until
    the summer package tours kick in every summer), and whatever big Latin artists
    play to sellout crowds at Universal, pardon me, um, Gibson at Universal
    Amphitheatre.

    But yeah, it ain’t pretty out there for big sheds looking for bands to fill
    seats. I still go to three shows a week (or more), but industry folks are an
    anomaly — none of my thirtysomething friends back in Alabama (most of which
    are married with kids) give a shit about live music anymore, telling me it’s too
    much of a hassle to pay for tickets, parking, food, merch, babysitter, etc

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  3. Comment by Adam Haft | 2005/06/02 at 20:00:41

    youre totally right about zooma. the venues were too big and the ticket cost
    too high. no one is gonna go spend a day at shoreline ampitheatre in mtn
    view to see those bands. but im confident that if they booked the greek theatre
    in berkeley for 2 shows, they woulve sold out.

    but if you look at the big summer classic tour, which is the 6 band tour of
    bands all with associations to Madison House, including New Monsoon, its doing
    well. we intentionally picked smaller venues, mostly minor league ballparks
    that will hold 9000, and weve kept our ticket price down. our tour is very
    easy to digest. good chance if you like one of the bands on the bill, you
    probably like several of them. weve made it real easy to identify who we are
    marketing to. anyway theres still a long way til show time, but i think were gonna
    do well.

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  5. Comment by Leslie Bell | 2005/06/02 at 20:00:58

    At a party over the weekend the topic of concerts came up. Most of my
    fortysomething friends are what you would consider "die hard" music fans who
    continue to see a lot of shows and purchase a lot of music. But I do think that
    ticket price is a BIG part of the issue – especially when the Rolling Stones are
    charging $400.00 / $160.00 per ticket for a decent seat. Same thing with U2.
    $160 bucks. While we can all afford these prices, it was the consensus
    during our discussion that we are INSULTED by and refuse to pay that much to see
    ANY act. (Not that it makes any difference – they still sell out anyway).
    I’d rather go to the House of Blues or Hard Rock Live any day, and don’t mind
    paying $35 to $50 to see a good show at those venues. Those acts are the ones
    that will be getting my money – and I’ll probably do the old fashioned thing
    and buy a tshirt and a CD, too. AND I’ll buy one for my kids who I’m taking to
    these concerts so they can experience what concerts used to be about… GOOD
    MUSIC.

    I recently took my daughter to the Green Day concert when they passed through
    Orlando. Sold out show. And one hell of a show at that! I’m not a fan, but
    was impressed with the fact that ALL tickets to this show were the same
    price, and it was a REASONABLE price compared to what most tickets cost these days
    for an arena show.

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  7. Comment by Jon Bahr | 2005/06/02 at 20:04:24

    Regarding Trey, your theory of the aging Phish fan may have some weight BUT
    the central reason why Phish fans aren’t support him much (or the Zooma Tour) –
    is that Trey’s new band, 70 Volt Parade, is very LACKLUSTER. There is an
    overwhelming sentiment that this new Trey project is ‘band’ and not worth seeing.
    It is certainly not worth seeing more than one show of in a year, let alone a
    tour.

    This circulated around the internet within a couple hours of the Zooma Tour
    cancellation. This is a parody of the message that Trey posted announcing the
    break-up of Phish:

    Last Friday night, I got together with Les, Ray, Skeeto and Peter to
    talk openly about the strong feelings I’ve been having that 70 Volt
    Parade has run its course and that we should end it now while it’s
    still on a high note. Once we started talking, it quickly became
    apparent that the other guys’ feelings, while not all the same as
    mine, were similar in many ways — most importantly, that we all love and respect 70 Volt Parade and the 70 Volt Parade audience far too much to stand by and allow it to drag on beyond the point of vibrancy and health. We don’t want to become caricatures of ourselves, or worse yet, a nostalgia act. By the end of the meeting, we realized that after almost two months together we were faced with the opportunity to graciously step away in unison, as a group, united in our friendship and our feelings of gratitude.

    So the 10,000 Lakes Festival will be the final 70 Volt Parade show.
    We are proud and thrilled that it will be in the fine state of
    Minnesota. We’re also excited for the Bonnaroo show, our last one
    together. For the sake of clarity, I should say that this is not like
    the time between Higher Ground and Richmond, which was our last
    attempt to revitalize ourselves. We’re done. It’s been an amazing and
    incredible journey. We thank you all for the love and support that
    you’ve shown us.

    — Trey Anastasio

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  9. Comment by Richard Flohil | 2005/06/02 at 20:04:56

    On the mark, as usual! The way I put it – and I promote on the small club
    level – is simple: People don’t lose interest in music when they advance into
    their mid-20s, but they sure as hell lose interest in standing around in a smoky
    club waiting for the headliner to come on at a quarter to midnight.
    But give a grownup audience nice surroundings, an option to eat a meal, and a
    show that starts at 8.30 and gets ’em out and on their way to bed by 11, and
    you get results. In Toronto, I sell out most of my shows a week before they
    happen, and with cover charges up to $35.00 (o’ course, that’s Canajun, but
    still!). You’ve probably not heard of any of these people (but you ought to
    ): Guy Clark, Tom Russell, Mary Gauthier, Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, Kelly Joe
    Phelps…
    And a reasonable ticket price for the experience is vital.
    I’m appalled by the sheer greed of artists like The Eagles, Celine,
    Elton John etc….

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  11. Comment by Mike Bone | 2005/06/02 at 20:05:17

    Will anyone see them 5 years from now?

    You hit the nail on the head. Will anyone give a FUCK about any of these
    dipsoable pop bands 3 years from now.

    You may not like ’em but people are still turning out to see Motley Crue!

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  13. Comment by Peter Koulouris | 2005/06/02 at 20:05:34

    I have an observation you may be interested in – Maroon 5 as an example –
    they are still a young band, notwithstanding the fat they’ve sold x million
    copies of their most recent album. They should probably be playing halls in the
    3-5000 range. Not 10,000. They’d be selling out. Plus ticket prices are too high.
    I’m 53. I was raised in Northern California and Fillmore and Winterland were
    my stomping grounds. Back in the day, it would cost me the equivalent of 2
    hours pay for a ticket to see, for example, T-Rex, or the Allman Bros. If the
    scale were the same today, $15-30 per ticket, shows would be selling out.

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  15. Comment by Matt Granger | 2005/06/02 at 20:05:52

    You’ve got some great points, Trey’s self-importance and coke habit killed
    Phish. And it was partly culture that was sold with Phish. Being a
    30-something I’d still go to see Phish at anywhere. But Trey, no one cares.
    And adding Ben Harper to the bill on Zooma?? Please. Trey is worth 3500
    seats and Ben 1500-2000. Does this add up to Irvine Meadows aka Verizon?

    I struggle with the issue that the business is imploding. Considering that
    Prince had the best tour last year, Metallica is still huge and a 30-something
    audience, and DMB still sells, though losing steam.

    I still see that pricing is an issue. Like a CD the youngsters don’t want to
    pay top dollar for a concert ticket to a sub-par performance. The older set
    has more money than the 30-something set, which is trying to raise a family,
    and therefore the older set is buying the heritage acts at $150/ticket and
    willing to still buy CDs. The younger acts can still sell tickets, they just have
    to be at the $20 30 range. Taste of Chaos, Warped, Green Day.

    Its value for money… much like the $17 CD for 5 decent songs isn’t worth
    it, the $75 for 70 minutes of bad vocals and a drunk guitarist isn’t.

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  17. Comment by Deb Wilker | 2005/06/02 at 20:06:10

    It isn’t just that compelling and lasting acts haven’t been (and still aren’t
    being) bred; or that the live biz has been over-relying on heritage acts for
    so long now it’s comical; (no different than the labels desperately scraping
    the vaults for the last 20 years); or that consolidation in both promo and
    ticketing killed incentive and competition; or that prices are absurd; or that
    conditions at some venues suck. It’s many things at once — and just as it is on
    the recorded end — everyone blames someone else.

    Often overlooked — and an issue that has also contributed greatly to this
    continuing spiral — is that this is an industry that has historically and
    fundamentally treated its customer (and the media) very, very badly on many levels
    and we all know it. Now that the product isn’t what it once was, and there are
    more exciting and comfortable ways to spend leisure time and dollars, of
    course the customer is choosing to forgo the bullshit long associated with
    concert-going (or that he thinks may still be associated with it, even if at certain
    venues the experience today is indeed smooth).
    It’s tough to get away from the fact that the institutional culture was
    always one of — hell, they’ll line up for anything. They’ll trudge through mud;
    tolerate shitty food; insulting treatment from "security" guards; hours of
    traffic; blazing sun; disgusting bathrooms, and (back in the day) endless waits on
    the phone for some phantom Ticketmaster rep who rarely materialized – and when
    she did, presented with a rigid script and an IQ of about 30. (Problem with
    your order? Dream on if you think there might ever be a meaningful resolution).
    Meanwhile, core fans, real fans, the truly devoted — continue to watch the
    best seats go to scalpers, while enduring unconscionable gouging at the hands
    of both brokers and artists.

    That far too few industry people don’t buy tickets like a regular guy, don’t
    park in the regular lot, sit in a regular seat, and wait on all the regular
    bathroom and snack-bar lines for the regular fare, also contributes to ongoing
    issues of quality control.
    I can’t think of many industries that could continue to slap around the
    customer this way and still be successful, let alone survive. Maybe when the
    product was scary-great. But today?
    And now that it’s clear that their won’t even be a next generation of $200
    acts — that when Mick and Paul kick it really is truly over – what’s even left
    to have faith in? Somebody change my mind . . .

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  19. Comment by Dan Kennedy | 2005/06/02 at 20:07:17

    People aren’t excited about these acts, precisely because the hype machine
    INSISTS that people be excited about these acts. And when the hype machine
    INSISTS people be excited, people start to realize the only dignified thing to do
    is not be excited.

    Plus a live show is about music, and major labels are about product. Going to
    see a product on stage makes no sense. I need to see Gwen Steffani on stage
    about as much as I need to see any other product on a stage. Live! Tonight!
    Dawn liquid dishwashing detergent! I’m standing on line for an hour for this? In
    the time it takes I can go home, enjoy the product, read a book or watch a
    movie, and keep my dignity. The aptly named Product Managers at majors have been
    conditioned and rewarded for approaching music as product for so long, they’ve
    probably eroded any draw their acts might’ve had. People have smelled a rat
    so many times by now… every album released is "The most eagerly anticipated!"
    follow up, unless of course it’s the "The year’s most eagerly anticipated!"
    debut. Every album that has scanned one "unit" north of 500k is a "Platinum
    smash!"

    And visually every photo of these acts INSISTS that the act is hip,
    beautiful, freshly styled and scrubbed. It is absolutely no mistake that you never see
    the face of one person in Apple’s iPod advertising, and that the ad doesn’t
    exclaim "Over 2 million already sold!". God…how lame would you feel carrying
    around an iPod if everywhere you looked were ads with "iPods are the coolest
    gadget to have! A must have!" — Entertainment Weekly

    Add to all of this the fact that everyone knows these acts aren’t gonna be
    around long enough to merit investing your time in seeing them live and getting
    into them, because they’ll get one or MAYBE two albums and then they’re dust.
    If the most eagerly anticipated debut doesn’t become the platinum smash
    including the #1 hit single, the act is a goner. It’s like: are you going to be the
    fool getting all into the girl you KNOW is going to be leaving town in three
    months if she doesn’t get famous? Yikes.

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  21. Comment by Mark Gorlick | 2005/06/02 at 20:07:39

    I agree with you nearly ALL the time, but explain this to me……I was at
    the 93.3 show because we had Simple Plan on the show. It was completely SOLD
    OUT…..all the way to the lawn. In fact, when the band did "Perfect", they
    flipped the lights on, and for as far as the eye could see, it was wall to wall
    people…….Simple Plan followed Gwen and it was the same for her as well.

    Now as a radio show, the station gives away a TON of tickets on the air, to
    sponsors, clients, etc etc., but when it comes to recording gross for POLLSTAR,
    etc etc, the giveaways must not count–otherwise how can you account for the
    fact that your information says the show wasn’t clean, but my eyes told me
    something COMPLETELY different.

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  23. Comment by Michael Witthaus | 2005/06/02 at 20:07:56

    Blame the Eagles. The common wisdom is right – with the typical show costing
    north of 75 bucks a ticket, there’s a ton of attrition. Seeing a show isn’t
    a casual thing, at most I can afford two or three a season. CDs have doubled
    in price over the past 15 years while concerts have quintupled, and then
    some. Do you think the poor schmuck who paid 400 dollars for the Stones has
    anything left ovefor Joe and Todd? Feggedaboutit.

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  25. Comment by Nic Harcourt | 2005/06/02 at 20:08:13

    The Wiggles are doing alright.

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  27. Comment by Bob Piascik | 2005/06/02 at 20:08:33

    I haven’t been to a concert in years
    Last one was Elton John with my wife and in-laws and I felt like a fish out
    of water
    No wonder the concert business is off
    I read your missives about the live business tanking and you are dead on I am
    not interested in the crowd and the rip off of $15 parking and $10 beers I
    would rather watch it at home on my home theatre

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  29. Comment by Rick Mueller | 2005/06/02 at 20:08:48

    The acts the thirtysomethings want to see: John Mayer, Radiohead, Dave
    Matthews, Coldplay, Pearl Jam, Kenny Chesney, Toby Keith, Tim McGraw, No Doubt,
    Dixie Chicks. All acts with a crowd in their 30’s that have toured multiple
    times to selling at least 13,000+ in my neck of the woods. It’s not the hey-day
    of live music but there’s plenty of acts still doing good business.

    I agree with you whole heatedly with your point that the entertainment value
    of a video game beats the entertainment value of a younger demo concert. Good
    Charlotte and Simple plan should cost $15 or $20. Kids care about value the
    same way the Baby Boomer cares about their VIP experience. But we are an
    industry of greedy pigs and no one entity (promoter, manager, agent) can control
    pricing for the greater health of the business. It must come crashing down
    before we can rebuild it.

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  31. Comment by Anonymous Promoter | 2005/06/02 at 20:09:07

    I disagree with you on your trey/ben analysis. How about ben fans don’t want
    to see trey. Ask a ben fan if they want to be stuck with trey’s stinky fans
    at a show. Your answer is no. How about fans of both acts want to see full 2
    hour plus sets by each of the co-headliners. Do the fans know that they will
    get this? No. they call this a festival? With four acts advertised?
    Hello? Concerts 101 here. Does anyone know what zooma is? Was there any real
    advance press? No. Enough said.

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  33. Comment by Tom Dertinger | 2005/06/02 at 20:09:36

    How timely. I spoke with a friend a few weeks back, asking what shows he has
    seen of late.His response was "None -been checking out a lot on DVD
    though".This middle age former fan had been lost..now gearing up for serious couch
    surfing in this mid market Canadian city.I began to see the cracks in the ice widen
    and my paycheque in the industry became a question mark -now it’s circling
    the drain as deep now I know you speak the truth about the live market.

    It’s like the theatre business -the few shows that are $100 a pop are no
    brainers.People pick a show for the summer, blow the wad, have bragging rights
    -status. Elton John,Billy Joel,to a degree McCartney (I don’t really want to see
    Paul after the Superbowl schmatlz),Tim McGraw,and a few others. The middle
    terrain has been reduced to super-sized clubs that hold a few thousand and charge
    large amounts for beverages -because they can. In some major markets it seems
    like 80% of the shows end up there. They usually have a favourite wal-martish
    concert firm they deal with for the lions share of the gigs and ALWAYS ask
    which ACT the date is on hold for (if you don’t LIE guess where THAT tidbit of
    information goes). Same game with the soft seaters -it’s bad enough playing
    daily heads up hockey with the other carinivores in agency -promoter world but
    when the venues get down and dirty the playing field gets seriously tilted
    against the mid sized and up and coming promoters.Add to the mire a greatly reduced
    roster of developing artists on major labels and it all becomes about the
    next Rod Stewart tour.

    Pitchfork isn’t perfect but at least it’s something -god knows we have all
    but COMPLETELY given up on radio to have any meaning in our lives with the
    execption of a few markets.Even those so called cutting edge stations seem to have
    become addicted to hyping bands already long in the tooth like Oasis or The
    Offspring. As for SPIN -now a joke, yellow flag to AP and Magnet and three stars
    to No Depression. The fact that fans have a say with web cabals like
    myspace.com is good news BUT what happened to raw emotion and passion with the kids?
    Protest -outrage -the search for meaning..our planet has been turned upside
    down in the last 5 years in many many ways.I guess sitting in a split level house
    getting your brains sucked out via video games is the new normal.Denial is an
    ugly thing.

    On Sir Bob.
    Why does it take Bob Geldof to raise the alarm bell yet again? Hopefully he
    will have the good sense to include some important (real) acts like Arcade Fire
    (gave all the money to Hatian relief after shows in Toronto) or Billy Talent
    (played a low key Tibetian Relief concert )…and what’s up with the FREE
    shows Geldof is planning? Did I hear that right? I’d be a little concerned about
    anarchy.Good luck Mr.Geldof.

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  35. Comment by Don Adkins | 2005/06/02 at 20:10:01

    Great points as usual. I think I’ve told you this before but we’re doing the
    coolest things of all — house concerts. Thanks to the screwed up nature of
    pay to play and play for free we’re been hosting concerts with some of LA’s
    biggest acts playing here at our house at the beach. there’s a growing movement
    of folks like us doing this. We basically find acts we like on the local scene
    and set up house concerts using EVITE. we get the money up-front (to secure a
    place) and get 30 – 40 folks at our house. we do it "Hollywood Bowl Style"
    where everyone brings a bottle of wine and we have small foods, cheeses, etc and
    have a helluva Saturday night. Everyone comes out a winner. The artists
    typically leave with $600 – $1000 worth of ticket and CD sales, we get a great
    intimate experience with "real" talent and all of our friends absolutely love it.

    If you’d like to try one of these out I can give you a "press" invite and you
    can see for yourself. Our next house concert is July 23rd with a great
    emerging talent named Marina V. We live in South Redondo close to the beach. These
    kinds of events restore your faith in it all.

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  37. Comment by Jim Ahearne | 2005/06/02 at 20:10:19

    Back in the mid 80’s I was, shall we say, on Dead tour. Which is my way of
    admitting that I wasn’t paying much attention to Def Leppard at the time. Fast
    forward 15 years and I’m now promoting a Def Leppard date. By then, I was a bit
    more tuned in to the Leppard, but still, I wasn’t quite sure what the big
    deal was and why they were still pulling in the fans. Come day of show we were
    about 90% sold, so the tour manager and I head out into the hall with an audit
    and seat map to identify the location of unsold seats and holds and to
    hopefully find some more seats on the side we could open. Looking at the map he sees
    about 100 holds right in the center on the floor spread out between the 5th and
    15th row. "What are these?" he asks. "Band holds. Those are yours." I reply.
    "Nonsense…we don’t need those. Put our guests up there." and he turned to
    his left and pointed to the somewhat obstructed view seats off to the side of
    the stage. "Those floor seats are for our fans. Release them and put them on
    sale. Anyone getting in for free can sit up there." Again, pointing up and to the
    side of the stage. And the the light bulb in my head went off. I get it. No
    wonder this band has fans. I’ve never seen any band do anything remotely as
    cool as sticking their guests in the boonies so that their fans can get the good
    seats. Talk about not abandoning your fans. No wonder Def Leppard STILL has it
    going on.

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  39. Comment by Jeff Trisler | 2005/06/02 at 20:10:38

    About 1 1/2 ago, NACPA commissioned Neilsen to do a study on teen interest in
    concerts. The results were alarming, but not (to me anyway) surprising. The
    short version of thier findings were that teens didn’t really even think much
    about concerts amd were more interested in hanging with friends, watching
    DVD’s, playing games, etc. You might be interested to track down the research and
    see the details for yourself.

    There are many (in my opinion) reasons behind the lack of interest. But the
    biggest overriding issue is that the music and the artists just aren’t nearly
    as important in kids lives today as they were to our generation. Kids lives
    today are infinately different than our own. Today’s youth (by and large) isn’t
    as passionate about life in general (look no further than 1973 youth’s response
    to Vietnam/Nixon/Watergate compared to 2004 youth’s non response to
    Iraq/Bush/no WMD). Music is just background in thier lives as opposed to the central
    focus OF thier lives.

    All that being said, is it ‘over’? Not by a long shot. ‘Different’;
    unquestionably. What it probably means is more shows by more artists in smaller venues.
    Meanwhile acts like DMB inspire and unite hundreds of thousands of non baby
    boomers every summer and festivals like Coachella and Bonaroo bring together
    tens thousands to see live music. That being said, you’re absolutely right in
    that the days of dozens of acts being able to fill large venues annually has
    seen it’s best days.

    Hip/Hop/Rap: they have not been able to translate the massive record sales
    and public interest into major concert draw for one simple reason; with few
    exceptions, their shows have zero entertainment value. Who wants to pay $40-$100
    to see their heros walk about with a microphone in front of a DJ repeating the
    same rhymes you can hear on the recordings? The only exception that comes to
    mind was Dre’s "Up In Smoke" tour 5 years ago that not only had a package of
    great rappers (Dre, Em, Snoop, etc.) but had STAGE SETS, great production value
    and tickets under $50. Was a big win for everyone (in the west anyway). See
    the Em/50 ticket sales for this year for the best example of this genre NOT
    working at the box office.

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  41. Comment by Monica Ice | 2005/06/02 at 20:10:57

    Thanks for doing a newsletter on this. I’ve been observing this and
    feeling/thinking the exact same thing myself. I don’t go to live shows like I used
    to. In evaluating myself, I’m asking why. Who would I want to see enough to
    actually go? (Besides The Wildhearts.) I used to go to the annual Poison show
    (don’t laugh) in Cincinnati; I always knew they would put on a great show and
    that they toured with acts who would be of interest to me (Faster Pussycat,
    Winger, Cinderella, Vince Neil, Skid Row…). ….The only answers I can come
    up with are rare, older bands (typically from Europe) that I wouldn’t have a
    chance to see otherwise, like Sleeze Beez. As you say, the role of music has
    changed. It used to be that music and cult-type radio stations (like 102.9
    WAZU) were catalysts in meeting and socializing with other people who had similar
    interests. Now, we have chat rooms and message boards for that. Live shows
    are doing much better (where I’m at) in the form of fairs and festivals where
    larger amounts of people are already there for the larger event. The free
    shows and festival shows have the better audiences here than an act touring on
    their own, for their own event, at their own venue. (Ohio State Fair vs. Hara
    Arena.) I know I prefer to see shows at/during other events. This is my
    observation.

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  43. Comment by Mark Edwards Edelstein | 2005/06/02 at 20:11:17

    Just a couple of thoughts on Maroon 5 in St. Louis. As a radio PD (please
    don’t drop me from your list because of that) I had to work that show. True,
    they only did about 75% of the house, but it is a 16,000 seat arena. WAY too
    big for that act. And I’m guessing about a third of the people in there were
    the parents who had to take the kids to she show or were there to keep an eye on
    them. So they maybe only drew 7000-8000 FANS with lots of moms escaping to
    the bar during the show.

    Dave Matthews kicked off his tour here last night. I don’t care what
    Pollstar says, the place was not much more than 2/3 full. For the first night of
    Dave.

    Tis a sad sad state of affairs…..

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  45. Comment by Oscar Furtado | 2005/06/06 at 09:10:47

    The real reason music sells is people.  People sell to people.  But the only
    way this works is if the music is fucking amazing.  I understand that’s a no
    brainer but why doesn’t the industry get it!

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  47. Comment by Toby Mamis | 2005/06/06 at 09:11:08

    More than HALF the time, we see this at Alice shows.  Our contract explicitly
    states "no band or venue comps in the front 20 rows," and when we get there,
    ALL the comps are in the front 20 rows.  I’ve taken to requisitioning detailed
    seat-by-seat manifests of the front 20 rows to see how they have been
    allocated, before the on-sale.  I don’t really have the time, but I have to do it. 
    We prefer our guests to be further back, close to the sound board, if not
    upstairs.

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  49. Comment by Steve Lukather | 2005/06/06 at 09:11:32

    It’s too fucking expensive for the fans AND the artists!!! No matter what
    level, what demo, what year,  how "fab" a band is or is not. Musicians have there
    audience BUT if its a young band, parents pay for the tickets not the kids.
    For us older guys..I wouldnt go to a show unless I made a call to get the "fab"
    treatment. A perk of being in this fucking circus for almost 30 years. ( I do
    it for my kids for the most part, otherwise the artists are my friends and or
    people I played with)…. I dont care WHAT kinda music you dig or hate. The
    drag is its a trickle down concept. It costs more for gas to drive the trucks,
    Freight..thanks to 9/11, has tripled at least, and greed and or fear, its all
    part of the same scheme.
    Its a re-think on all accounts for EVERYONE on all sides. Its a drag. In a
    few years we will be paying Euro prices for gas, 5 bucks a gallon, and ALL that
    goes with it. INSURANCE for our personel etc.. Most people have NO idea just
    what it costs to GO on tour. They think we are all basking in money, chicks and
    drugs… Ahh, the good old days.. hahahahahahahaha!!!

    Love Luke ox

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  51. Comment by Brad Riesau | 2005/06/06 at 09:12:21

    Up until two years ago, I averaged about 65-80 concerts a year that I PAID to
    see, much less the slew of shows I was fortunate enough to be comp’d into or
    work. I was always a multi-night guy who would travel to shows by numerous
    bands, stay for both sets in clubs, see shows at different points in a tour just
    for comparison’s sake…With ticket prices now sky high, much less hard to
    finagle when you want to pay for them, scalpers gouging on already exorbitant
    prices, light shows and belly-buttons more important than music and package shows
    and opening acts put together with blinders on, who can bother.
     
    I still hit 30-40 paid shows if I’m lucky but I’ll always opt for a club gig,
    a new artist or the JOE JACKSON/TODD package where you know you’ll get your
    money’s worth than some mega show. I’ll still stand in a sweaty
    crowd-field-basement to hear something moving and real. I hadn’t missed a Clapton tour since
    ’74, Bruce since ’75 (haven’t seen the last couple of tours though I’m sure I
    would’ve loved them and you gotta give it up to The Boss for trying to keep
    tickets away from scalpers and at least attempting to bring some literacy and
    meaning to today’s music). I would never have blown off a Simon & Garfunkel
    reunion, or Brian Wilson’s SMILE in my wildest dreams…but sorry…I can’t afford
    all the music I want to hear. No one I know can. I sure used to be able to,
    before I was making a decent living. I’ll give Steve Earle my $25 the next time
    he comes through town…and maybe the next night too. Somebody saying
    something from the heart.
     
    But let’s forget all of us long-in-the-tooth consumers…how many kids have
    the luxury to see 3-4 shows by their favorite band, much less take a date, go
    out to dinner…Some kid working a crummy start-up job can’t afford the gas to
    get to the show much less buy two $300 tickets. I bought my first scalper
    ticket for Zeppelin’s Physical Graffiti tour and was appalled that a $7.50 seat
    was going for $25. I had no choice. It was Zeppelin. They were sold out. I sat
    in the 15th row center with my best friend and will never forget it. Majestic,
    powerful, defining rock moment for me. So today, a $300 ticket goes for $1200.
    Any kids out there getting $1200 worth of rock n roll in an evening? Doubt it.
     
    Styles and tastes change. And okay the risk of putting on major shows is a
    crap shoot I won’t take but the bottom line is that we are living in a society
    where value for the dollar is not a particularly noteworthy pursuit. We pay big
    bucks to elect greedy bozos to positions of power. We buy cars, homes,
    technology that falls apart or is outdated before we get to enjoy it. Why shouldn’t
    a consumer get what they pay for? Because they keep paying for crap. Consume
    garbage, more garbage flows at ya. 
     
    Coachella is value for the dollar. As is Bonarroo. Dylan, Merle Haggard &
    Amos Lee? Worth the hassle whether or not you catch the great night of Bob or the
    shaggy one. But, I agree, we in the business are perhaps not a fair measure.
    NONE of my friends in my age group would stand in a field in the rain for ANY
    reason, especially having paid hundreds of dollars and waited in line for a $9
    beer…But, can you blame them? They saw the Stones, the Dead, Zeppelin,
    U2…when the bands were in their prime for a $12 ticket and a $3 beer with a van
    full of their grinnin’ peers when music was ALL that mattered to them…
     
    As Neil Young once sang, " ‘Live Music Is Better’ bumper stickers should be
    issued". No doubt, but one must eat…
     
    A final thought…whether you loved him or hated him, I’d take a Bill Graham
    produced show over anything going these days. Quality sound, line-ups, and
    respect for the audience…and he still made money. Funny how that worked…

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  53. Comment by Hugo Burnham | 2005/06/06 at 09:14:12

    Nic Harcourt: The Wiggles are doing alright.

    No shit….Carol and I have had less problems getting passes’n’parking to
    Stones or U2 gigs over the years than getting just regular seats for The Wiggles.
    I went through all sorts of hell getting tickets for one of two Rhode Island
    arena shows (in one day) that they sold out in under an hour. The swag was
    FLYING out of the place both before and after the show…parents grappling with
    each other for the last piece of anything. Unbelievable. All worth it
    though…once I saw my daughter bum-rush the stage with Carol in hot pursuit, leaving
    me at the seats with the coats, cotton candy, coloring book, t-shirts, and soft
    Big Red Car…smiling sheepishly at the other parents around me as we all
    sang along to ‘Fruit Salad/Yummy Yummy’.

    Why are The Wiggles constantly grinning? They’re making more money than god.

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  55. Comment by Cathy Burke | 2005/06/06 at 09:14:32

    For the 30-somethings and 40-somethings, there are very few acts that they
    want to go through the hassle and expense for.
     
    I was at Live Aid twenty years ago as a college freshman –rode the train
    from Boston with Bill Graham ‘s son and a bunch of other teens and early twenties
    jazzed for the experience.  The tickets were not free. The experience was
    AWESOME.
     
    This time, I am LIVING in Philly and the tickets are FREE and you could not
    PAY ME to go down to the Live8 show.  Any act I’d really want to see is in
    London.  The mayhem is going to be INSANE–I’d rather spend my 4th of July weekend
    at the beach, chilling out with friends to my ipod..
     
    I went back to NY recently to see U2 and will again in the Fall along with
    the Philly show, but I couldn’t tell ya another band I’d do that for anymore.  I
    wrestled with going to see the Black Crowes at the Borgota, but tickets are
    expensive and having seen them countless times before for free, it just didn’t
    turn me on enough in the end.
     
    The 20-somethings are just not that into the live experience.  They didn’t
    grow up on it like we did.  And as sad as it seems, ya get to a certain age and
    it just doesn’t mean as much–different priorities enter in.  Although, lower
    ticket prices would make a big difference I think.
     
    I know we go round and round about U2 every tour–but I will not waiver –you
    get your money’s worth and that is why there is never an unsold ticket.  It’s
    a guaranteed spiritual experience along with a helluva rock show. A true
    brand!
     
    Emo bands and  new bands with a radio hit or two –they’ll come and go.  The
    generation they speak to is not into long-term fandom anyway–they get bored
    if things are not quick and constantly stimulating.  Video games are their
    concerts.  Technology enhanced our lives and it hurt the status quo in many
    ways–live music being one casualty.  Gotta embrace change–which I find that the
    old schoolers in the music industry never want to do.

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  57. Comment by Paul Rappaport | 2005/06/06 at 09:14:50

    I believe the answer to most of our ills is for us to start "giving" again
    instead of "taking."  The industry was grown by people who had vision and wanted
    to give and create a cool environment for all whether it was recordings or a
    guy like Bill Grahm who CARED about his audiences and gave them events that
    entered their hearts in a very real way.  Yeah, he made money doing it, but the
    point is he was "giving" something to humanity not just taking as much money
    as he could.  Even back stage was an event for the bands themselves.  I
    remember standing backstage in Oakland watching Bruce with Ron Wood.  We had been
    treated to a great meal and we were eating gelato that we both had just gotten
    from and ice cream stand back stage!  Now, this back stage event cost Bill some
    dough but man was it worth it for the GREAT vibe.  It just made all of us feel
    so good.  Try and just get a fucking cracker with cheese backstage today. 
    Way too many people are just interested in how much
    coin they can glean not giving or creating anything great that makes everyone
    feel better and takes us all (fans and industry people alike) to another
    level.

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  59. Comment by Jason Dell | 2005/06/06 at 09:15:34

    Live business imploding?  Eh.  I don’t think so.  I see lots of encouraging
    signs of a revival, and good efforts to tap into latent demand both within and
    beyond my own company.  I believe very strongly that there is a vast pool of
    demand for live concerts that simply has not been tapped into.

    Where is the promoter who can do to the concert business what Guy Laliberte
    of Cirque du Soleil did to the dying circus business?  Instead of lamenting the
    decline of the circus audience in the mid 1980s, he reinvented the show,
    attracting people in droves at a price that was (is) many times greater than the
    Ringling Brothers were charging. Everyone in our business should be studying
    the hell out of Cirque du Soleil as an art, business, and philosophy.

    A few days ago, you wrote a very compelling note about conventional wisdom,
    quoting John Kenneth Galbraith: "We associate truth with convenience, with what
    most closely accords with self-interest…" Isn’t it convenient that
    conventional wisdom now blames shrinking concert audiences on prices, kids’ obsession
    with video games, and <gasp> the music itself.

    What if I told you that so far this year the artists whose ticket prices are
    higher than last year are selling more tickets, while those who have
    discounted their prices are selling fewer tickets.  What if I told you video games can
    be used as a channel to promote live concerts — that the distraction can
    become the attraction and drive kids in droves to the venues.  What if I told you
    that there is just as much good and great music today as there was twenty and
    thirty years ago.  Would you believe it?  Could you believe it?

    I really enjoyed your note on "Freakonomics."  You said something about the
    CD business that I hope lots of people in the LIVE business pick up on.  You
    said: "Really, think about it.  For every person trotted out in the media who
    says he’ll never by a CD again, there are people trekking to the store, to BUY
    discs.  Could it be that these people downloading were never really buying CDs?
     And that really, it’s not an issue of a declining market, of eating away at
    CD sales, rather this is an EXTRA MARKET THAT SHOULD BE TAPPED?" 

    Hmmmm.  How many people who have seen a Cirque du Soleil performance had
    never been to see the Ringling Brothers’ "Greatest Show On Earth" before?  How did
    Guy Laliberte find all those people?  What compelled them to go to his show? 
    What can we learn and use?  There’s lots there. I wish more my friends and
    colleagues would buck up and buckle down instead of resigning themselves to the
    "fate" that the circus almost met in the 1980s.  If a bunch of clowns can get
    reinspired to reinspire their audiences, then so can we.  I, for one, am
    finding more to celebrate than lament in the live business right now.

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  61. Comment by Marco Torcasio | 2005/06/06 at 09:15:58

    Something else I noticed that has been on my mind that relates…

    Los Angeles audiences suck ass.  I believe that for the most part there are
    fans out there (like I consider myself) who know good music.  I have close
    friends all over the country who all seem to be well versed in music trends…in
    many cases more so than the people I work with.  Mind you, they’re not trying
    to engage you in a competition of "Let’s See How Many Bands I Can Name That
    You’ve Never Heard Of", which must be the dumbest misconception of label people. 
    Oh, and by the way, if that super obscure band that I’ve been name-dropping
    in every conversation for the last 3 months ever sells 500K…they will cease
    to be cool.  Ridiculous.

    At any rate…I got side tracked.  I’ve seen 2 Drive By Truckers shows in the
    last 4-5 months.  Sold out gigs at the Troub at El Rey.  They went on around
    10PM at both shows.  I probably don’t have to tell you that this is a band
    with a dedicated fan base.  2 1/2 plus hours of brilliance.  I was blown away. 
    The thought of leaving never entered my mind…how could you leave?  People
    were packing it in after the first hour.  Walking out in droves.  The people who
    stayed for the duration were feeling the same inspiration I was.  But where
    are the rest of these enlightened fans. The same thing happen at the 2 My
    Morning Jacket Shows, 2 Wilco shows, a Damien Rice where Herbie Hancock play a
    45-minute improvisational set  with him….what the Fuck is going on.  I’ve
    compared notes on the same tours in other markets with friends who saw the same
    bands.  I’m usually regaled with comments like, "Yeah I had to stop drinking
    because it was too packed to make my way to the bathroom at midnight"  Things I only
    experience once when I tried to get back to my spot near the front of a open
    polo field at a Springsteen show in Dublin.  And speaking of Springsteen,
    wasn’t he revered for playing those exhausting 3 hour shows.  NO ONE leaves a
    Springs teen show early in Dublin, or Jersey, or Indy…just Dodger Stadium.

    Sorry for the tirade, I don’t even know if I’ve made a point, much less
    proven one.

    Love your posts.

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  63. Comment by Jack Orbin | 2005/06/06 at 09:16:16

    Great comments. But a couple important issues are missing.  First, I was
    fortunate enough to own 5 clubs back in the late ’70’s to the mid ’80’s. It was
    where U2, Rush, Peter Frampton, Bon Jovi, Judas Priest, etc. honed their live
    skills to go on to LEGITIMATELY headline and sell out arenas. Being promoted
    properly in small then bigger then big venues helps build a fan base that follow
    those that care enough about their music AND the environment they are playing
    in that concludes in, again, LEGITIMATE headliners. (Did I mention ticket
    prices for U2 were less than $10?) And, importantly, we didn’t cater to 14-16 year
    olds (no offense to them) but to 18-25 year olds!  And where are these clubs
    today? And where are the Acts that want to take the time to build like that?
    And then comes as important an issue as building the fan base through live
    performances, AIRPLAY. And I don’t mean massive, hear the same song every 42
    minutes airplay. I mean, as XM Radio calls it, Deep Tracks. I remember very clearly
    when great new music was being played on one or more stations, but you had to
    "find" it. But it was there. What Clear Channel has done to radio is a sin to
    all of us who care about music.(and the next potential headliner) And let’s
    face it, Clear Channel has only done what any greed (I mean totally money)
    oriented corporation who is allowed (where are you FCC?) to consolidate and make
    generic almost all playlists would do.  We will never have tomorrow’s
    headliners with staying power until radio formats change dramatically. But that’s an
    entirely too long issue to delve into now. Suffice it to say, when the Artist
    cares, when the DJ, once again, cares and has the flexibility to play true
    up-and-comers, and the entire population MAKES the music industry listen, THEN we
    will be back on the road to Acts (and music) that really counts.

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  65. Comment by John Scher | 2005/06/06 at 09:16:34

    The problems are REAL and the causes are many. All the issues including the
    state of radio, lack of artist development at major lables, Promoter
    consolidation and the greed that resulted to try and justify the acquisition (whether it
    be concert companies or tours), Artist greed, Manager greed, Agent greed,
    lack of understanding of the audience that is being targeted. It goes on and on.
    BUT the answer is quite simple. RIGHT ARTIST presented in the RIGHT VENUE at
    the RIGHT TICKET PRICE on the RIGHT DATE! Everyone would be quite surprised to
    find that the fans will come out in droves if we could go back to these simple
    rules.


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  1. Comment by Scott Perry | 2005/06/02 at 20:00:19

    I’d say the only bands worth seeing on a consistent basis are the ones the
    indie kids are into. I’m not armed with any empirical data, but the bands that
    resonate with their fans, make good music, and deliver a good live show will
    always do well. Maybe not stadium filling blockbuster numbers, but at least
    good enough numbers now that may continue to grow into Wilco-sized numbers
    (multi-theatre dates, but def not big shed / arena / stadium size:

    Decemberists, Bloc Party, Spoon, Sleater-Kinney, Arcade Fire, Pixies, Nails
    (can do bigger), Queens, Mars Volta, Stripes, Dears, plus rising alt/metal/emo
    bands (too many to list, but I guess they’re the domain of club shows until
    the summer package tours kick in every summer), and whatever big Latin artists
    play to sellout crowds at Universal, pardon me, um, Gibson at Universal
    Amphitheatre.

    But yeah, it ain’t pretty out there for big sheds looking for bands to fill
    seats. I still go to three shows a week (or more), but industry folks are an
    anomaly — none of my thirtysomething friends back in Alabama (most of which
    are married with kids) give a shit about live music anymore, telling me it’s too
    much of a hassle to pay for tickets, parking, food, merch, babysitter, etc

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    1. Comment by Adam Haft | 2005/06/02 at 20:00:41

      youre totally right about zooma. the venues were too big and the ticket cost
      too high. no one is gonna go spend a day at shoreline ampitheatre in mtn
      view to see those bands. but im confident that if they booked the greek theatre
      in berkeley for 2 shows, they woulve sold out.

      but if you look at the big summer classic tour, which is the 6 band tour of
      bands all with associations to Madison House, including New Monsoon, its doing
      well. we intentionally picked smaller venues, mostly minor league ballparks
      that will hold 9000, and weve kept our ticket price down. our tour is very
      easy to digest. good chance if you like one of the bands on the bill, you
      probably like several of them. weve made it real easy to identify who we are
      marketing to. anyway theres still a long way til show time, but i think were gonna
      do well.

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      1. Comment by Leslie Bell | 2005/06/02 at 20:00:58

        At a party over the weekend the topic of concerts came up. Most of my
        fortysomething friends are what you would consider "die hard" music fans who
        continue to see a lot of shows and purchase a lot of music. But I do think that
        ticket price is a BIG part of the issue – especially when the Rolling Stones are
        charging $400.00 / $160.00 per ticket for a decent seat. Same thing with U2.
        $160 bucks. While we can all afford these prices, it was the consensus
        during our discussion that we are INSULTED by and refuse to pay that much to see
        ANY act. (Not that it makes any difference – they still sell out anyway).
        I’d rather go to the House of Blues or Hard Rock Live any day, and don’t mind
        paying $35 to $50 to see a good show at those venues. Those acts are the ones
        that will be getting my money – and I’ll probably do the old fashioned thing
        and buy a tshirt and a CD, too. AND I’ll buy one for my kids who I’m taking to
        these concerts so they can experience what concerts used to be about… GOOD
        MUSIC.

        I recently took my daughter to the Green Day concert when they passed through
        Orlando. Sold out show. And one hell of a show at that! I’m not a fan, but
        was impressed with the fact that ALL tickets to this show were the same
        price, and it was a REASONABLE price compared to what most tickets cost these days
        for an arena show.

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        1. Comment by Jon Bahr | 2005/06/02 at 20:04:24

          Regarding Trey, your theory of the aging Phish fan may have some weight BUT
          the central reason why Phish fans aren’t support him much (or the Zooma Tour) –
          is that Trey’s new band, 70 Volt Parade, is very LACKLUSTER. There is an
          overwhelming sentiment that this new Trey project is ‘band’ and not worth seeing.
          It is certainly not worth seeing more than one show of in a year, let alone a
          tour.

          This circulated around the internet within a couple hours of the Zooma Tour
          cancellation. This is a parody of the message that Trey posted announcing the
          break-up of Phish:

          Last Friday night, I got together with Les, Ray, Skeeto and Peter to
          talk openly about the strong feelings I’ve been having that 70 Volt
          Parade has run its course and that we should end it now while it’s
          still on a high note. Once we started talking, it quickly became
          apparent that the other guys’ feelings, while not all the same as
          mine, were similar in many ways — most importantly, that we all love and respect 70 Volt Parade and the 70 Volt Parade audience far too much to stand by and allow it to drag on beyond the point of vibrancy and health. We don’t want to become caricatures of ourselves, or worse yet, a nostalgia act. By the end of the meeting, we realized that after almost two months together we were faced with the opportunity to graciously step away in unison, as a group, united in our friendship and our feelings of gratitude.

          So the 10,000 Lakes Festival will be the final 70 Volt Parade show.
          We are proud and thrilled that it will be in the fine state of
          Minnesota. We’re also excited for the Bonnaroo show, our last one
          together. For the sake of clarity, I should say that this is not like
          the time between Higher Ground and Richmond, which was our last
          attempt to revitalize ourselves. We’re done. It’s been an amazing and
          incredible journey. We thank you all for the love and support that
          you’ve shown us.

          — Trey Anastasio

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          1. Comment by Richard Flohil | 2005/06/02 at 20:04:56

            On the mark, as usual! The way I put it – and I promote on the small club
            level – is simple: People don’t lose interest in music when they advance into
            their mid-20s, but they sure as hell lose interest in standing around in a smoky
            club waiting for the headliner to come on at a quarter to midnight.
            But give a grownup audience nice surroundings, an option to eat a meal, and a
            show that starts at 8.30 and gets ’em out and on their way to bed by 11, and
            you get results. In Toronto, I sell out most of my shows a week before they
            happen, and with cover charges up to $35.00 (o’ course, that’s Canajun, but
            still!). You’ve probably not heard of any of these people (but you ought to
            ): Guy Clark, Tom Russell, Mary Gauthier, Ramblin’ Jack Elliott, Kelly Joe
            Phelps…
            And a reasonable ticket price for the experience is vital.
            I’m appalled by the sheer greed of artists like The Eagles, Celine,
            Elton John etc….

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            1. Comment by Mike Bone | 2005/06/02 at 20:05:17

              Will anyone see them 5 years from now?

              You hit the nail on the head. Will anyone give a FUCK about any of these
              dipsoable pop bands 3 years from now.

              You may not like ’em but people are still turning out to see Motley Crue!

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              1. Comment by Peter Koulouris | 2005/06/02 at 20:05:34

                I have an observation you may be interested in – Maroon 5 as an example –
                they are still a young band, notwithstanding the fat they’ve sold x million
                copies of their most recent album. They should probably be playing halls in the
                3-5000 range. Not 10,000. They’d be selling out. Plus ticket prices are too high.
                I’m 53. I was raised in Northern California and Fillmore and Winterland were
                my stomping grounds. Back in the day, it would cost me the equivalent of 2
                hours pay for a ticket to see, for example, T-Rex, or the Allman Bros. If the
                scale were the same today, $15-30 per ticket, shows would be selling out.

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                1. Comment by Matt Granger | 2005/06/02 at 20:05:52

                  You’ve got some great points, Trey’s self-importance and coke habit killed
                  Phish. And it was partly culture that was sold with Phish. Being a
                  30-something I’d still go to see Phish at anywhere. But Trey, no one cares.
                  And adding Ben Harper to the bill on Zooma?? Please. Trey is worth 3500
                  seats and Ben 1500-2000. Does this add up to Irvine Meadows aka Verizon?

                  I struggle with the issue that the business is imploding. Considering that
                  Prince had the best tour last year, Metallica is still huge and a 30-something
                  audience, and DMB still sells, though losing steam.

                  I still see that pricing is an issue. Like a CD the youngsters don’t want to
                  pay top dollar for a concert ticket to a sub-par performance. The older set
                  has more money than the 30-something set, which is trying to raise a family,
                  and therefore the older set is buying the heritage acts at $150/ticket and
                  willing to still buy CDs. The younger acts can still sell tickets, they just have
                  to be at the $20 30 range. Taste of Chaos, Warped, Green Day.

                  Its value for money… much like the $17 CD for 5 decent songs isn’t worth
                  it, the $75 for 70 minutes of bad vocals and a drunk guitarist isn’t.

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                  1. Comment by Deb Wilker | 2005/06/02 at 20:06:10

                    It isn’t just that compelling and lasting acts haven’t been (and still aren’t
                    being) bred; or that the live biz has been over-relying on heritage acts for
                    so long now it’s comical; (no different than the labels desperately scraping
                    the vaults for the last 20 years); or that consolidation in both promo and
                    ticketing killed incentive and competition; or that prices are absurd; or that
                    conditions at some venues suck. It’s many things at once — and just as it is on
                    the recorded end — everyone blames someone else.

                    Often overlooked — and an issue that has also contributed greatly to this
                    continuing spiral — is that this is an industry that has historically and
                    fundamentally treated its customer (and the media) very, very badly on many levels
                    and we all know it. Now that the product isn’t what it once was, and there are
                    more exciting and comfortable ways to spend leisure time and dollars, of
                    course the customer is choosing to forgo the bullshit long associated with
                    concert-going (or that he thinks may still be associated with it, even if at certain
                    venues the experience today is indeed smooth).
                    It’s tough to get away from the fact that the institutional culture was
                    always one of — hell, they’ll line up for anything. They’ll trudge through mud;
                    tolerate shitty food; insulting treatment from "security" guards; hours of
                    traffic; blazing sun; disgusting bathrooms, and (back in the day) endless waits on
                    the phone for some phantom Ticketmaster rep who rarely materialized – and when
                    she did, presented with a rigid script and an IQ of about 30. (Problem with
                    your order? Dream on if you think there might ever be a meaningful resolution).
                    Meanwhile, core fans, real fans, the truly devoted — continue to watch the
                    best seats go to scalpers, while enduring unconscionable gouging at the hands
                    of both brokers and artists.

                    That far too few industry people don’t buy tickets like a regular guy, don’t
                    park in the regular lot, sit in a regular seat, and wait on all the regular
                    bathroom and snack-bar lines for the regular fare, also contributes to ongoing
                    issues of quality control.
                    I can’t think of many industries that could continue to slap around the
                    customer this way and still be successful, let alone survive. Maybe when the
                    product was scary-great. But today?
                    And now that it’s clear that their won’t even be a next generation of $200
                    acts — that when Mick and Paul kick it really is truly over – what’s even left
                    to have faith in? Somebody change my mind . . .

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                    1. Comment by Dan Kennedy | 2005/06/02 at 20:07:17

                      People aren’t excited about these acts, precisely because the hype machine
                      INSISTS that people be excited about these acts. And when the hype machine
                      INSISTS people be excited, people start to realize the only dignified thing to do
                      is not be excited.

                      Plus a live show is about music, and major labels are about product. Going to
                      see a product on stage makes no sense. I need to see Gwen Steffani on stage
                      about as much as I need to see any other product on a stage. Live! Tonight!
                      Dawn liquid dishwashing detergent! I’m standing on line for an hour for this? In
                      the time it takes I can go home, enjoy the product, read a book or watch a
                      movie, and keep my dignity. The aptly named Product Managers at majors have been
                      conditioned and rewarded for approaching music as product for so long, they’ve
                      probably eroded any draw their acts might’ve had. People have smelled a rat
                      so many times by now… every album released is "The most eagerly anticipated!"
                      follow up, unless of course it’s the "The year’s most eagerly anticipated!"
                      debut. Every album that has scanned one "unit" north of 500k is a "Platinum
                      smash!"

                      And visually every photo of these acts INSISTS that the act is hip,
                      beautiful, freshly styled and scrubbed. It is absolutely no mistake that you never see
                      the face of one person in Apple’s iPod advertising, and that the ad doesn’t
                      exclaim "Over 2 million already sold!". God…how lame would you feel carrying
                      around an iPod if everywhere you looked were ads with "iPods are the coolest
                      gadget to have! A must have!" — Entertainment Weekly

                      Add to all of this the fact that everyone knows these acts aren’t gonna be
                      around long enough to merit investing your time in seeing them live and getting
                      into them, because they’ll get one or MAYBE two albums and then they’re dust.
                      If the most eagerly anticipated debut doesn’t become the platinum smash
                      including the #1 hit single, the act is a goner. It’s like: are you going to be the
                      fool getting all into the girl you KNOW is going to be leaving town in three
                      months if she doesn’t get famous? Yikes.

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                      1. Comment by Mark Gorlick | 2005/06/02 at 20:07:39

                        I agree with you nearly ALL the time, but explain this to me……I was at
                        the 93.3 show because we had Simple Plan on the show. It was completely SOLD
                        OUT…..all the way to the lawn. In fact, when the band did "Perfect", they
                        flipped the lights on, and for as far as the eye could see, it was wall to wall
                        people…….Simple Plan followed Gwen and it was the same for her as well.

                        Now as a radio show, the station gives away a TON of tickets on the air, to
                        sponsors, clients, etc etc., but when it comes to recording gross for POLLSTAR,
                        etc etc, the giveaways must not count–otherwise how can you account for the
                        fact that your information says the show wasn’t clean, but my eyes told me
                        something COMPLETELY different.

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                        1. Comment by Michael Witthaus | 2005/06/02 at 20:07:56

                          Blame the Eagles. The common wisdom is right – with the typical show costing
                          north of 75 bucks a ticket, there’s a ton of attrition. Seeing a show isn’t
                          a casual thing, at most I can afford two or three a season. CDs have doubled
                          in price over the past 15 years while concerts have quintupled, and then
                          some. Do you think the poor schmuck who paid 400 dollars for the Stones has
                          anything left ovefor Joe and Todd? Feggedaboutit.

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                          1. Comment by Nic Harcourt | 2005/06/02 at 20:08:13

                            The Wiggles are doing alright.

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                            1. Comment by Bob Piascik | 2005/06/02 at 20:08:33

                              I haven’t been to a concert in years
                              Last one was Elton John with my wife and in-laws and I felt like a fish out
                              of water
                              No wonder the concert business is off
                              I read your missives about the live business tanking and you are dead on I am
                              not interested in the crowd and the rip off of $15 parking and $10 beers I
                              would rather watch it at home on my home theatre

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                              1. Comment by Rick Mueller | 2005/06/02 at 20:08:48

                                The acts the thirtysomethings want to see: John Mayer, Radiohead, Dave
                                Matthews, Coldplay, Pearl Jam, Kenny Chesney, Toby Keith, Tim McGraw, No Doubt,
                                Dixie Chicks. All acts with a crowd in their 30’s that have toured multiple
                                times to selling at least 13,000+ in my neck of the woods. It’s not the hey-day
                                of live music but there’s plenty of acts still doing good business.

                                I agree with you whole heatedly with your point that the entertainment value
                                of a video game beats the entertainment value of a younger demo concert. Good
                                Charlotte and Simple plan should cost $15 or $20. Kids care about value the
                                same way the Baby Boomer cares about their VIP experience. But we are an
                                industry of greedy pigs and no one entity (promoter, manager, agent) can control
                                pricing for the greater health of the business. It must come crashing down
                                before we can rebuild it.

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                                1. Comment by Anonymous Promoter | 2005/06/02 at 20:09:07

                                  I disagree with you on your trey/ben analysis. How about ben fans don’t want
                                  to see trey. Ask a ben fan if they want to be stuck with trey’s stinky fans
                                  at a show. Your answer is no. How about fans of both acts want to see full 2
                                  hour plus sets by each of the co-headliners. Do the fans know that they will
                                  get this? No. they call this a festival? With four acts advertised?
                                  Hello? Concerts 101 here. Does anyone know what zooma is? Was there any real
                                  advance press? No. Enough said.

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                                  1. Comment by Tom Dertinger | 2005/06/02 at 20:09:36

                                    How timely. I spoke with a friend a few weeks back, asking what shows he has
                                    seen of late.His response was "None -been checking out a lot on DVD
                                    though".This middle age former fan had been lost..now gearing up for serious couch
                                    surfing in this mid market Canadian city.I began to see the cracks in the ice widen
                                    and my paycheque in the industry became a question mark -now it’s circling
                                    the drain as deep now I know you speak the truth about the live market.

                                    It’s like the theatre business -the few shows that are $100 a pop are no
                                    brainers.People pick a show for the summer, blow the wad, have bragging rights
                                    -status. Elton John,Billy Joel,to a degree McCartney (I don’t really want to see
                                    Paul after the Superbowl schmatlz),Tim McGraw,and a few others. The middle
                                    terrain has been reduced to super-sized clubs that hold a few thousand and charge
                                    large amounts for beverages -because they can. In some major markets it seems
                                    like 80% of the shows end up there. They usually have a favourite wal-martish
                                    concert firm they deal with for the lions share of the gigs and ALWAYS ask
                                    which ACT the date is on hold for (if you don’t LIE guess where THAT tidbit of
                                    information goes). Same game with the soft seaters -it’s bad enough playing
                                    daily heads up hockey with the other carinivores in agency -promoter world but
                                    when the venues get down and dirty the playing field gets seriously tilted
                                    against the mid sized and up and coming promoters.Add to the mire a greatly reduced
                                    roster of developing artists on major labels and it all becomes about the
                                    next Rod Stewart tour.

                                    Pitchfork isn’t perfect but at least it’s something -god knows we have all
                                    but COMPLETELY given up on radio to have any meaning in our lives with the
                                    execption of a few markets.Even those so called cutting edge stations seem to have
                                    become addicted to hyping bands already long in the tooth like Oasis or The
                                    Offspring. As for SPIN -now a joke, yellow flag to AP and Magnet and three stars
                                    to No Depression. The fact that fans have a say with web cabals like
                                    myspace.com is good news BUT what happened to raw emotion and passion with the kids?
                                    Protest -outrage -the search for meaning..our planet has been turned upside
                                    down in the last 5 years in many many ways.I guess sitting in a split level house
                                    getting your brains sucked out via video games is the new normal.Denial is an
                                    ugly thing.

                                    On Sir Bob.
                                    Why does it take Bob Geldof to raise the alarm bell yet again? Hopefully he
                                    will have the good sense to include some important (real) acts like Arcade Fire
                                    (gave all the money to Hatian relief after shows in Toronto) or Billy Talent
                                    (played a low key Tibetian Relief concert )…and what’s up with the FREE
                                    shows Geldof is planning? Did I hear that right? I’d be a little concerned about
                                    anarchy.Good luck Mr.Geldof.

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                                    1. Comment by Don Adkins | 2005/06/02 at 20:10:01

                                      Great points as usual. I think I’ve told you this before but we’re doing the
                                      coolest things of all — house concerts. Thanks to the screwed up nature of
                                      pay to play and play for free we’re been hosting concerts with some of LA’s
                                      biggest acts playing here at our house at the beach. there’s a growing movement
                                      of folks like us doing this. We basically find acts we like on the local scene
                                      and set up house concerts using EVITE. we get the money up-front (to secure a
                                      place) and get 30 – 40 folks at our house. we do it "Hollywood Bowl Style"
                                      where everyone brings a bottle of wine and we have small foods, cheeses, etc and
                                      have a helluva Saturday night. Everyone comes out a winner. The artists
                                      typically leave with $600 – $1000 worth of ticket and CD sales, we get a great
                                      intimate experience with "real" talent and all of our friends absolutely love it.

                                      If you’d like to try one of these out I can give you a "press" invite and you
                                      can see for yourself. Our next house concert is July 23rd with a great
                                      emerging talent named Marina V. We live in South Redondo close to the beach. These
                                      kinds of events restore your faith in it all.

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                                      1. Comment by Jim Ahearne | 2005/06/02 at 20:10:19

                                        Back in the mid 80’s I was, shall we say, on Dead tour. Which is my way of
                                        admitting that I wasn’t paying much attention to Def Leppard at the time. Fast
                                        forward 15 years and I’m now promoting a Def Leppard date. By then, I was a bit
                                        more tuned in to the Leppard, but still, I wasn’t quite sure what the big
                                        deal was and why they were still pulling in the fans. Come day of show we were
                                        about 90% sold, so the tour manager and I head out into the hall with an audit
                                        and seat map to identify the location of unsold seats and holds and to
                                        hopefully find some more seats on the side we could open. Looking at the map he sees
                                        about 100 holds right in the center on the floor spread out between the 5th and
                                        15th row. "What are these?" he asks. "Band holds. Those are yours." I reply.
                                        "Nonsense…we don’t need those. Put our guests up there." and he turned to
                                        his left and pointed to the somewhat obstructed view seats off to the side of
                                        the stage. "Those floor seats are for our fans. Release them and put them on
                                        sale. Anyone getting in for free can sit up there." Again, pointing up and to the
                                        side of the stage. And the the light bulb in my head went off. I get it. No
                                        wonder this band has fans. I’ve never seen any band do anything remotely as
                                        cool as sticking their guests in the boonies so that their fans can get the good
                                        seats. Talk about not abandoning your fans. No wonder Def Leppard STILL has it
                                        going on.

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                                        1. Comment by Jeff Trisler | 2005/06/02 at 20:10:38

                                          About 1 1/2 ago, NACPA commissioned Neilsen to do a study on teen interest in
                                          concerts. The results were alarming, but not (to me anyway) surprising. The
                                          short version of thier findings were that teens didn’t really even think much
                                          about concerts amd were more interested in hanging with friends, watching
                                          DVD’s, playing games, etc. You might be interested to track down the research and
                                          see the details for yourself.

                                          There are many (in my opinion) reasons behind the lack of interest. But the
                                          biggest overriding issue is that the music and the artists just aren’t nearly
                                          as important in kids lives today as they were to our generation. Kids lives
                                          today are infinately different than our own. Today’s youth (by and large) isn’t
                                          as passionate about life in general (look no further than 1973 youth’s response
                                          to Vietnam/Nixon/Watergate compared to 2004 youth’s non response to
                                          Iraq/Bush/no WMD). Music is just background in thier lives as opposed to the central
                                          focus OF thier lives.

                                          All that being said, is it ‘over’? Not by a long shot. ‘Different’;
                                          unquestionably. What it probably means is more shows by more artists in smaller venues.
                                          Meanwhile acts like DMB inspire and unite hundreds of thousands of non baby
                                          boomers every summer and festivals like Coachella and Bonaroo bring together
                                          tens thousands to see live music. That being said, you’re absolutely right in
                                          that the days of dozens of acts being able to fill large venues annually has
                                          seen it’s best days.

                                          Hip/Hop/Rap: they have not been able to translate the massive record sales
                                          and public interest into major concert draw for one simple reason; with few
                                          exceptions, their shows have zero entertainment value. Who wants to pay $40-$100
                                          to see their heros walk about with a microphone in front of a DJ repeating the
                                          same rhymes you can hear on the recordings? The only exception that comes to
                                          mind was Dre’s "Up In Smoke" tour 5 years ago that not only had a package of
                                          great rappers (Dre, Em, Snoop, etc.) but had STAGE SETS, great production value
                                          and tickets under $50. Was a big win for everyone (in the west anyway). See
                                          the Em/50 ticket sales for this year for the best example of this genre NOT
                                          working at the box office.

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                                          1. Comment by Monica Ice | 2005/06/02 at 20:10:57

                                            Thanks for doing a newsletter on this. I’ve been observing this and
                                            feeling/thinking the exact same thing myself. I don’t go to live shows like I used
                                            to. In evaluating myself, I’m asking why. Who would I want to see enough to
                                            actually go? (Besides The Wildhearts.) I used to go to the annual Poison show
                                            (don’t laugh) in Cincinnati; I always knew they would put on a great show and
                                            that they toured with acts who would be of interest to me (Faster Pussycat,
                                            Winger, Cinderella, Vince Neil, Skid Row…). ….The only answers I can come
                                            up with are rare, older bands (typically from Europe) that I wouldn’t have a
                                            chance to see otherwise, like Sleeze Beez. As you say, the role of music has
                                            changed. It used to be that music and cult-type radio stations (like 102.9
                                            WAZU) were catalysts in meeting and socializing with other people who had similar
                                            interests. Now, we have chat rooms and message boards for that. Live shows
                                            are doing much better (where I’m at) in the form of fairs and festivals where
                                            larger amounts of people are already there for the larger event. The free
                                            shows and festival shows have the better audiences here than an act touring on
                                            their own, for their own event, at their own venue. (Ohio State Fair vs. Hara
                                            Arena.) I know I prefer to see shows at/during other events. This is my
                                            observation.

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                                            1. Comment by Mark Edwards Edelstein | 2005/06/02 at 20:11:17

                                              Just a couple of thoughts on Maroon 5 in St. Louis. As a radio PD (please
                                              don’t drop me from your list because of that) I had to work that show. True,
                                              they only did about 75% of the house, but it is a 16,000 seat arena. WAY too
                                              big for that act. And I’m guessing about a third of the people in there were
                                              the parents who had to take the kids to she show or were there to keep an eye on
                                              them. So they maybe only drew 7000-8000 FANS with lots of moms escaping to
                                              the bar during the show.

                                              Dave Matthews kicked off his tour here last night. I don’t care what
                                              Pollstar says, the place was not much more than 2/3 full. For the first night of
                                              Dave.

                                              Tis a sad sad state of affairs…..

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                                              1. Comment by Oscar Furtado | 2005/06/06 at 09:10:47

                                                The real reason music sells is people.  People sell to people.  But the only
                                                way this works is if the music is fucking amazing.  I understand that’s a no
                                                brainer but why doesn’t the industry get it!

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                                                1. Comment by Toby Mamis | 2005/06/06 at 09:11:08

                                                  More than HALF the time, we see this at Alice shows.  Our contract explicitly
                                                  states "no band or venue comps in the front 20 rows," and when we get there,
                                                  ALL the comps are in the front 20 rows.  I’ve taken to requisitioning detailed
                                                  seat-by-seat manifests of the front 20 rows to see how they have been
                                                  allocated, before the on-sale.  I don’t really have the time, but I have to do it. 
                                                  We prefer our guests to be further back, close to the sound board, if not
                                                  upstairs.

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                                                  1. Comment by Steve Lukather | 2005/06/06 at 09:11:32

                                                    It’s too fucking expensive for the fans AND the artists!!! No matter what
                                                    level, what demo, what year,  how "fab" a band is or is not. Musicians have there
                                                    audience BUT if its a young band, parents pay for the tickets not the kids.
                                                    For us older guys..I wouldnt go to a show unless I made a call to get the "fab"
                                                    treatment. A perk of being in this fucking circus for almost 30 years. ( I do
                                                    it for my kids for the most part, otherwise the artists are my friends and or
                                                    people I played with)…. I dont care WHAT kinda music you dig or hate. The
                                                    drag is its a trickle down concept. It costs more for gas to drive the trucks,
                                                    Freight..thanks to 9/11, has tripled at least, and greed and or fear, its all
                                                    part of the same scheme.
                                                    Its a re-think on all accounts for EVERYONE on all sides. Its a drag. In a
                                                    few years we will be paying Euro prices for gas, 5 bucks a gallon, and ALL that
                                                    goes with it. INSURANCE for our personel etc.. Most people have NO idea just
                                                    what it costs to GO on tour. They think we are all basking in money, chicks and
                                                    drugs… Ahh, the good old days.. hahahahahahahaha!!!

                                                    Love Luke ox

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                                                    1. Comment by Brad Riesau | 2005/06/06 at 09:12:21

                                                      Up until two years ago, I averaged about 65-80 concerts a year that I PAID to
                                                      see, much less the slew of shows I was fortunate enough to be comp’d into or
                                                      work. I was always a multi-night guy who would travel to shows by numerous
                                                      bands, stay for both sets in clubs, see shows at different points in a tour just
                                                      for comparison’s sake…With ticket prices now sky high, much less hard to
                                                      finagle when you want to pay for them, scalpers gouging on already exorbitant
                                                      prices, light shows and belly-buttons more important than music and package shows
                                                      and opening acts put together with blinders on, who can bother.
                                                       
                                                      I still hit 30-40 paid shows if I’m lucky but I’ll always opt for a club gig,
                                                      a new artist or the JOE JACKSON/TODD package where you know you’ll get your
                                                      money’s worth than some mega show. I’ll still stand in a sweaty
                                                      crowd-field-basement to hear something moving and real. I hadn’t missed a Clapton tour since
                                                      ’74, Bruce since ’75 (haven’t seen the last couple of tours though I’m sure I
                                                      would’ve loved them and you gotta give it up to The Boss for trying to keep
                                                      tickets away from scalpers and at least attempting to bring some literacy and
                                                      meaning to today’s music). I would never have blown off a Simon & Garfunkel
                                                      reunion, or Brian Wilson’s SMILE in my wildest dreams…but sorry…I can’t afford
                                                      all the music I want to hear. No one I know can. I sure used to be able to,
                                                      before I was making a decent living. I’ll give Steve Earle my $25 the next time
                                                      he comes through town…and maybe the next night too. Somebody saying
                                                      something from the heart.
                                                       
                                                      But let’s forget all of us long-in-the-tooth consumers…how many kids have
                                                      the luxury to see 3-4 shows by their favorite band, much less take a date, go
                                                      out to dinner…Some kid working a crummy start-up job can’t afford the gas to
                                                      get to the show much less buy two $300 tickets. I bought my first scalper
                                                      ticket for Zeppelin’s Physical Graffiti tour and was appalled that a $7.50 seat
                                                      was going for $25. I had no choice. It was Zeppelin. They were sold out. I sat
                                                      in the 15th row center with my best friend and will never forget it. Majestic,
                                                      powerful, defining rock moment for me. So today, a $300 ticket goes for $1200.
                                                      Any kids out there getting $1200 worth of rock n roll in an evening? Doubt it.
                                                       
                                                      Styles and tastes change. And okay the risk of putting on major shows is a
                                                      crap shoot I won’t take but the bottom line is that we are living in a society
                                                      where value for the dollar is not a particularly noteworthy pursuit. We pay big
                                                      bucks to elect greedy bozos to positions of power. We buy cars, homes,
                                                      technology that falls apart or is outdated before we get to enjoy it. Why shouldn’t
                                                      a consumer get what they pay for? Because they keep paying for crap. Consume
                                                      garbage, more garbage flows at ya. 
                                                       
                                                      Coachella is value for the dollar. As is Bonarroo. Dylan, Merle Haggard &
                                                      Amos Lee? Worth the hassle whether or not you catch the great night of Bob or the
                                                      shaggy one. But, I agree, we in the business are perhaps not a fair measure.
                                                      NONE of my friends in my age group would stand in a field in the rain for ANY
                                                      reason, especially having paid hundreds of dollars and waited in line for a $9
                                                      beer…But, can you blame them? They saw the Stones, the Dead, Zeppelin,
                                                      U2…when the bands were in their prime for a $12 ticket and a $3 beer with a van
                                                      full of their grinnin’ peers when music was ALL that mattered to them…
                                                       
                                                      As Neil Young once sang, " ‘Live Music Is Better’ bumper stickers should be
                                                      issued". No doubt, but one must eat…
                                                       
                                                      A final thought…whether you loved him or hated him, I’d take a Bill Graham
                                                      produced show over anything going these days. Quality sound, line-ups, and
                                                      respect for the audience…and he still made money. Funny how that worked…

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                                                      1. Comment by Hugo Burnham | 2005/06/06 at 09:14:12

                                                        Nic Harcourt: The Wiggles are doing alright.

                                                        No shit….Carol and I have had less problems getting passes’n’parking to
                                                        Stones or U2 gigs over the years than getting just regular seats for The Wiggles.
                                                        I went through all sorts of hell getting tickets for one of two Rhode Island
                                                        arena shows (in one day) that they sold out in under an hour. The swag was
                                                        FLYING out of the place both before and after the show…parents grappling with
                                                        each other for the last piece of anything. Unbelievable. All worth it
                                                        though…once I saw my daughter bum-rush the stage with Carol in hot pursuit, leaving
                                                        me at the seats with the coats, cotton candy, coloring book, t-shirts, and soft
                                                        Big Red Car…smiling sheepishly at the other parents around me as we all
                                                        sang along to ‘Fruit Salad/Yummy Yummy’.

                                                        Why are The Wiggles constantly grinning? They’re making more money than god.

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                                                        1. Comment by Cathy Burke | 2005/06/06 at 09:14:32

                                                          For the 30-somethings and 40-somethings, there are very few acts that they
                                                          want to go through the hassle and expense for.
                                                           
                                                          I was at Live Aid twenty years ago as a college freshman –rode the train
                                                          from Boston with Bill Graham ‘s son and a bunch of other teens and early twenties
                                                          jazzed for the experience.  The tickets were not free. The experience was
                                                          AWESOME.
                                                           
                                                          This time, I am LIVING in Philly and the tickets are FREE and you could not
                                                          PAY ME to go down to the Live8 show.  Any act I’d really want to see is in
                                                          London.  The mayhem is going to be INSANE–I’d rather spend my 4th of July weekend
                                                          at the beach, chilling out with friends to my ipod..
                                                           
                                                          I went back to NY recently to see U2 and will again in the Fall along with
                                                          the Philly show, but I couldn’t tell ya another band I’d do that for anymore.  I
                                                          wrestled with going to see the Black Crowes at the Borgota, but tickets are
                                                          expensive and having seen them countless times before for free, it just didn’t
                                                          turn me on enough in the end.
                                                           
                                                          The 20-somethings are just not that into the live experience.  They didn’t
                                                          grow up on it like we did.  And as sad as it seems, ya get to a certain age and
                                                          it just doesn’t mean as much–different priorities enter in.  Although, lower
                                                          ticket prices would make a big difference I think.
                                                           
                                                          I know we go round and round about U2 every tour–but I will not waiver –you
                                                          get your money’s worth and that is why there is never an unsold ticket.  It’s
                                                          a guaranteed spiritual experience along with a helluva rock show. A true
                                                          brand!
                                                           
                                                          Emo bands and  new bands with a radio hit or two –they’ll come and go.  The
                                                          generation they speak to is not into long-term fandom anyway–they get bored
                                                          if things are not quick and constantly stimulating.  Video games are their
                                                          concerts.  Technology enhanced our lives and it hurt the status quo in many
                                                          ways–live music being one casualty.  Gotta embrace change–which I find that the
                                                          old schoolers in the music industry never want to do.

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                                                          1. Comment by Paul Rappaport | 2005/06/06 at 09:14:50

                                                            I believe the answer to most of our ills is for us to start "giving" again
                                                            instead of "taking."  The industry was grown by people who had vision and wanted
                                                            to give and create a cool environment for all whether it was recordings or a
                                                            guy like Bill Grahm who CARED about his audiences and gave them events that
                                                            entered their hearts in a very real way.  Yeah, he made money doing it, but the
                                                            point is he was "giving" something to humanity not just taking as much money
                                                            as he could.  Even back stage was an event for the bands themselves.  I
                                                            remember standing backstage in Oakland watching Bruce with Ron Wood.  We had been
                                                            treated to a great meal and we were eating gelato that we both had just gotten
                                                            from and ice cream stand back stage!  Now, this back stage event cost Bill some
                                                            dough but man was it worth it for the GREAT vibe.  It just made all of us feel
                                                            so good.  Try and just get a fucking cracker with cheese backstage today. 
                                                            Way too many people are just interested in how much
                                                            coin they can glean not giving or creating anything great that makes everyone
                                                            feel better and takes us all (fans and industry people alike) to another
                                                            level.

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                                                            1. Comment by Jason Dell | 2005/06/06 at 09:15:34

                                                              Live business imploding?  Eh.  I don’t think so.  I see lots of encouraging
                                                              signs of a revival, and good efforts to tap into latent demand both within and
                                                              beyond my own company.  I believe very strongly that there is a vast pool of
                                                              demand for live concerts that simply has not been tapped into.

                                                              Where is the promoter who can do to the concert business what Guy Laliberte
                                                              of Cirque du Soleil did to the dying circus business?  Instead of lamenting the
                                                              decline of the circus audience in the mid 1980s, he reinvented the show,
                                                              attracting people in droves at a price that was (is) many times greater than the
                                                              Ringling Brothers were charging. Everyone in our business should be studying
                                                              the hell out of Cirque du Soleil as an art, business, and philosophy.

                                                              A few days ago, you wrote a very compelling note about conventional wisdom,
                                                              quoting John Kenneth Galbraith: "We associate truth with convenience, with what
                                                              most closely accords with self-interest…" Isn’t it convenient that
                                                              conventional wisdom now blames shrinking concert audiences on prices, kids’ obsession
                                                              with video games, and <gasp> the music itself.

                                                              What if I told you that so far this year the artists whose ticket prices are
                                                              higher than last year are selling more tickets, while those who have
                                                              discounted their prices are selling fewer tickets.  What if I told you video games can
                                                              be used as a channel to promote live concerts — that the distraction can
                                                              become the attraction and drive kids in droves to the venues.  What if I told you
                                                              that there is just as much good and great music today as there was twenty and
                                                              thirty years ago.  Would you believe it?  Could you believe it?

                                                              I really enjoyed your note on "Freakonomics."  You said something about the
                                                              CD business that I hope lots of people in the LIVE business pick up on.  You
                                                              said: "Really, think about it.  For every person trotted out in the media who
                                                              says he’ll never by a CD again, there are people trekking to the store, to BUY
                                                              discs.  Could it be that these people downloading were never really buying CDs?
                                                               And that really, it’s not an issue of a declining market, of eating away at
                                                              CD sales, rather this is an EXTRA MARKET THAT SHOULD BE TAPPED?" 

                                                              Hmmmm.  How many people who have seen a Cirque du Soleil performance had
                                                              never been to see the Ringling Brothers’ "Greatest Show On Earth" before?  How did
                                                              Guy Laliberte find all those people?  What compelled them to go to his show? 
                                                              What can we learn and use?  There’s lots there. I wish more my friends and
                                                              colleagues would buck up and buckle down instead of resigning themselves to the
                                                              "fate" that the circus almost met in the 1980s.  If a bunch of clowns can get
                                                              reinspired to reinspire their audiences, then so can we.  I, for one, am
                                                              finding more to celebrate than lament in the live business right now.

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                                                              1. Comment by Marco Torcasio | 2005/06/06 at 09:15:58

                                                                Something else I noticed that has been on my mind that relates…

                                                                Los Angeles audiences suck ass.  I believe that for the most part there are
                                                                fans out there (like I consider myself) who know good music.  I have close
                                                                friends all over the country who all seem to be well versed in music trends…in
                                                                many cases more so than the people I work with.  Mind you, they’re not trying
                                                                to engage you in a competition of "Let’s See How Many Bands I Can Name That
                                                                You’ve Never Heard Of", which must be the dumbest misconception of label people. 
                                                                Oh, and by the way, if that super obscure band that I’ve been name-dropping
                                                                in every conversation for the last 3 months ever sells 500K…they will cease
                                                                to be cool.  Ridiculous.

                                                                At any rate…I got side tracked.  I’ve seen 2 Drive By Truckers shows in the
                                                                last 4-5 months.  Sold out gigs at the Troub at El Rey.  They went on around
                                                                10PM at both shows.  I probably don’t have to tell you that this is a band
                                                                with a dedicated fan base.  2 1/2 plus hours of brilliance.  I was blown away. 
                                                                The thought of leaving never entered my mind…how could you leave?  People
                                                                were packing it in after the first hour.  Walking out in droves.  The people who
                                                                stayed for the duration were feeling the same inspiration I was.  But where
                                                                are the rest of these enlightened fans. The same thing happen at the 2 My
                                                                Morning Jacket Shows, 2 Wilco shows, a Damien Rice where Herbie Hancock play a
                                                                45-minute improvisational set  with him….what the Fuck is going on.  I’ve
                                                                compared notes on the same tours in other markets with friends who saw the same
                                                                bands.  I’m usually regaled with comments like, "Yeah I had to stop drinking
                                                                because it was too packed to make my way to the bathroom at midnight"  Things I only
                                                                experience once when I tried to get back to my spot near the front of a open
                                                                polo field at a Springsteen show in Dublin.  And speaking of Springsteen,
                                                                wasn’t he revered for playing those exhausting 3 hour shows.  NO ONE leaves a
                                                                Springs teen show early in Dublin, or Jersey, or Indy…just Dodger Stadium.

                                                                Sorry for the tirade, I don’t even know if I’ve made a point, much less
                                                                proven one.

                                                                Love your posts.

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                                                                1. Comment by Jack Orbin | 2005/06/06 at 09:16:16

                                                                  Great comments. But a couple important issues are missing.  First, I was
                                                                  fortunate enough to own 5 clubs back in the late ’70’s to the mid ’80’s. It was
                                                                  where U2, Rush, Peter Frampton, Bon Jovi, Judas Priest, etc. honed their live
                                                                  skills to go on to LEGITIMATELY headline and sell out arenas. Being promoted
                                                                  properly in small then bigger then big venues helps build a fan base that follow
                                                                  those that care enough about their music AND the environment they are playing
                                                                  in that concludes in, again, LEGITIMATE headliners. (Did I mention ticket
                                                                  prices for U2 were less than $10?) And, importantly, we didn’t cater to 14-16 year
                                                                  olds (no offense to them) but to 18-25 year olds!  And where are these clubs
                                                                  today? And where are the Acts that want to take the time to build like that?
                                                                  And then comes as important an issue as building the fan base through live
                                                                  performances, AIRPLAY. And I don’t mean massive, hear the same song every 42
                                                                  minutes airplay. I mean, as XM Radio calls it, Deep Tracks. I remember very clearly
                                                                  when great new music was being played on one or more stations, but you had to
                                                                  "find" it. But it was there. What Clear Channel has done to radio is a sin to
                                                                  all of us who care about music.(and the next potential headliner) And let’s
                                                                  face it, Clear Channel has only done what any greed (I mean totally money)
                                                                  oriented corporation who is allowed (where are you FCC?) to consolidate and make
                                                                  generic almost all playlists would do.  We will never have tomorrow’s
                                                                  headliners with staying power until radio formats change dramatically. But that’s an
                                                                  entirely too long issue to delve into now. Suffice it to say, when the Artist
                                                                  cares, when the DJ, once again, cares and has the flexibility to play true
                                                                  up-and-comers, and the entire population MAKES the music industry listen, THEN we
                                                                  will be back on the road to Acts (and music) that really counts.

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                                                                  1. Comment by John Scher | 2005/06/06 at 09:16:34

                                                                    The problems are REAL and the causes are many. All the issues including the
                                                                    state of radio, lack of artist development at major lables, Promoter
                                                                    consolidation and the greed that resulted to try and justify the acquisition (whether it
                                                                    be concert companies or tours), Artist greed, Manager greed, Agent greed,
                                                                    lack of understanding of the audience that is being targeted. It goes on and on.
                                                                    BUT the answer is quite simple. RIGHT ARTIST presented in the RIGHT VENUE at
                                                                    the RIGHT TICKET PRICE on the RIGHT DATE! Everyone would be quite surprised to
                                                                    find that the fans will come out in droves if we could go back to these simple
                                                                    rules.

                                                                  This is a read-only blog. E-mail comments directly to Bob.